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Mystery caboose...
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19495		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Stephen Hussar [ Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Mystery caboose...
All,

This wood caboose is located in a neighborhood in Winchester, Massachusetts, and is said to be threatened with demolition if a new home cannot be found. Winchester, MA is a bedroom community located 10 miles north of Boston.

Any ideas on its heritage? Also, I will endeavor to obtain contact info in anyone is interested.
http://photos.nerail.org/photos/2006010318395125739.jpg
Photo: Alex Formanek
Image
Author:  Howard P. [ Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery caboose...
It sure looks like one of the Central Vermont "USRA" design cars. One of these wound up at Warehouse Point trolley museum (and suffered a fire in one end about 20 years ago), and has recently gone to CT Eastern NRHS at Willimantic (they have a nice group of CV rolling stock).

This "USRA" design wood car was the basis for the later (1930s) steel "anthracite" (RDG) cabooses, used by RDG, LV, CNJ, LNE, etc. L&HR had this type of wood buggy, with centered cupola and two by two side windows. Aside from CV and L&HR, I can't recall these being too common. And the CV didn't have many of them, either.
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  L&NE - alert the anthracite troops! Re: Mystery caboose.
Stephen and Howard,

I would guess this car is from Lehigh New England series #571-578, of which went to the B&M and are scattered about New England with a steel LNE hack or two.

Of this class, I do not believe any are in museums, and none are in Pennsylvania. If you have contact info, please pass on to me if RMNE is not interested.

Here's a shot of #572 in service. http://www.gingerb.com/Caboose%20Car%20No.%20572.jpg

Until today, I was aware of three ex B&M nee L&NE cars . Now there may be a fourth.

#571 is at North Conway, NH.
#??? is at Groveton, NH.
http://www.greatnorthwoods.org/groveton/grovetonrrtrain02.jpg
#??? is at Bath, NH. This last one looks to be in the #567 series due to the cupola shape. http://members.fortunecity.com/railtrails/NH/WW/KK951-08.JPG


Rob

PS: Compare and contrast, here are all the images:
On the LNE
Image
Winchester, MA
Image
Groveton, NH
Image
Bath, NH
Image
Author:  Howard P. [ Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: L&NE - alert the anthracite troops! Re: Mystery cabo
Ah, Rob, I forgot about those LNE cars!!! No, RMNE is not interested-- we have plenty to do at the moment, and for the next few decades. Perhaps it could be repaitriated to hard coal country? (Scranton? Jim Chunk?)

The B&M car in the last photo looks like a longer car; did LNE have long and short versions of these?
Author:  crij [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: L&NE - alert the anthracite troops! Re: Mystery cabo
Rob,

IMHO, I don't think it is a LNE car of that series, take a look at the end close-up the photographer also posted on NERail Photo Archive:
Image
http://photos.nerail.org/photos/2006010318262313089.jpg

Specifically look at the steps, this one looks to have cast or sculpted step side plates, where as the LNEs were rectangular. I e-mailed him yesterday, suggesting that he might find the original owner initials on the truck side frames, but have not heard back. She is definitely from the same general plan as the LNEs.

He also posted a 3rd photo:

http://photos.nerail.org/photos/2006010318271519774.jpg

Alex's photos: http://photos.nerail.org/show/?order=byposter&page=1&key=GuilfordGuy

We can also elimate to some degree of her being a CV version, here is a photo of the end of CV 4052 at the CERRM:
Image
Notice the shape of the steps, bail/cut lever configuration, and upper grab iron on the end wall.

Take care,

Rich Cizik[/url]
Author:  Dave [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: L&NE - alert the anthracite troops! Re: Mystery cabo
The general shape, configuration and the cast step is very like (if not) the Central of Georgia hacks made out of old boxcars. I don't know who else used cast steps applied to the side sills in a similar manner. Stephen? Might be a good car for Thronateeska, save rebuilding the remnants you got.

dave
Author:  Stephen S. Syfrett [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: L&NE - alert the anthracite troops! Re: Mystery cabo
Quote:
Might be a good car for Thronateeska, save rebuilding the remnants you got.


Well, that's a thought, but I'd need to do a bit more research to confirm it's identity. I know some cabeese roamed far from home, but Massachusetts? I'd hope none of the CofGa cabs wound up north of the Mason-Dixon! ;>)

I hate to give up on X-73 that easily...but the temptation...
Author:  Stephen Hussar [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: L&NE - alert the anthracite troops! Re: Mystery cabo
I'll work on getting contact info, and perhaps more detailed images. Unfortunately I can't get over there until Saturday.

Stephen
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  More -- I think it is LNE #574-577
Hi,

I took Rich's comment on the steps to heart, assuming they were not modified. And I couldn;t wait to get home tonight to do some more digging. LNE cabooses #571 to 578 were all fairly identical except, it seems, for the steps! See pictures and scale drawings here:


http://www.nhrrvolunteers.org/NHRRCaboose.html


#571-573 were built by PSC. #574-578 were built by Magor. From pictures in Augsbuger's LNE color book and Fischer's b&w LNE tome, it looks like the Magor cars had the cast steps similar to the car in Winchester, MA and not the fabricated steps of #571-573.

So, if the steps match, how else does the MA car compare to LNE #574-578? And later, I will note it cannot be #576.

1. Sheet metal shied in front of ladder matches "some" LNE cars. Photos show it on outside and inside of ladders from car to car. Cut out for step is consistent with LNE practice on all cars.

2. Straight end grabs up high next to door match LNE cars, as do all other grabs.

3. Steel kick plates along door at the bottom of end walls matches the LNE cars.

4. Cupola sunshade matches LNE cars.

5. Trucks match LNE cars.

6. Close examination shows half the massive cut lever (same as used on the LNE) is still there, from the coupler to the sill mount.

7. Finally, looking at the end close up of the MA car, the grabs show white paint, witht he B&M used on them, as do the sheet metal pices on the end railings. This is consistent with how the B&M painted the cars. However, the ladder shows yellow, which was the LNE color, and white which was color on the B&M.

The kicker for me, in addition to seeing if the reporting marks are cast on the trucks, is whether or not there is evidence of two stoves, located on the same side of the car. It is believed all but one of the LNE #571-578 group had two stoves set one on either side of the cupola, but along the same side wall (ie both on the "left" side of the car).

Another kicker would be evidence of B&M blue on the carbody, as the ex LNE cars are beleived to be the only class painted blue.

I also now know it is NOT #576, as it is being restored in New Hope, PA. I also now know I was wrong that none of these cars are in PA. I forgot that the B&M did not get all of these cars, as at least two went to the Northampton & Bath where they lost thier cupolas and were painted bright orange.

I also believe it is probably not #574, as this one had a unique side window rain deflector.

Might it not be an LNE hack? Sure, but at this point it has all the visual markings of one that went to the B&M, and it is in MA. Circumstantial, but pretty interesting.

Rob Davis
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Long and short of it
Howard,

Yep, there were a few long wooden hacks the LNE sent to the B&M as well. At one point, New England could boast all these wooden LNE cars, plus the 5 steel LNE cars Nelson Blount purchased!

Do I have to call them "buggys" if I am speaking of their B&M days?

Rob
Author:  davidwoodbury [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery caboose...
Since we're generating interest in rolling stock in New England, I want to remind one and all that B&M coach 1246 is looking for a new home.
Author:  Walter [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: L&NE - alert the anthracite troops! Re: Mystery cabo
Stephen, keep us posted with what you find out.

If you get a chance to look at the trucks, that might help clear up some of the confusion about this car.

Also, how accessible is the caboose where it sits? Would it be a problem to get to with heavy equipment?
Author:  caboose9 [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: L&NE - alert the anthracite troops! Re: Mystery cabo
Walter said, "If you get a chance to look at the trucks ..."


... for cast-in railroad initials and the center sill for markings, as well!
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