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Heritage Railroading Wake Up Call
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Author:  Mark S Bassett [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Heritage Railroading Wake Up Call
This past summer we have a volunteer from Great Britain spent some time on the Nevada Northern. Recently he sent me a couple copies of Heritage Railway Magazine. I was shocked!!!

In thumbing through the pages, it is amazing what they are doing in Great Britain with rail preservation. And this is a monthly magazine!!!! On the cover of the magazine is a blurb that says “Britain’s Premier Preservation NEWS Magazine” Does that mean there are others? If so, I have to confess, I am blown away. We have nothing like this on our side of the pond. Check it out: http://www.heritagerailway.co.uk/

The issue I was looking at is 100 glossy pages of color! Not only are the pictures wonderful but the articles are very meaty and well written. There are even two pages of “Quality accommodation close to your favourite railway” listings that are under the heading of “Stay a While!”

It appears that while we are struggling, the birthplace of steam railroading is going full speed ahead. I just have to believe that there is a great story in here somewhere.

So what’s my point? Actually I have two of them. First is I would be interested in hearing some of the reasons why the British are so far ahead of us in rail preservation. Secondly what can we do here to emulate their success. This is almost reminding me of the old movie, "The Mouse That Roared" Here's a country that can fit in the state of Texas with room left over and we can't hold a candle to their efforts.

I found this on another British web site:
UK Heritage Railways - The Facts & Figures

Railway preservation is no longer a movement of dedicated railway enthusiasts; it is a big and growing industry and a key factor in tourism programmes in many areas. (My emphasis) From the Great Little Trains of Wales which feed hundreds of thousands of visitors into the remoter and lovelier parts of the Principality to busy commuter lines such as the Paignton & Dartmouth Railway, so called Heritage Railways are thriving and thrusting in all directions.

This page sets out little known facts on the strength of the industry which is keen to co-operate with other organisations for filming and PR work, movement of freight and special traffic, hospitality and simple days out. Special catering arrangements, from neo banquets to cream teas, are available on the trains of many railways. Heavy engineering workshops are available for outside work and the railways themselves are often able to provide facilities for main line manufacturers and operators for tasks and tests which would be impossible or at least inconvenient on the main system. The Heritage Railway Association promotes its members and ensures the safety of all its operations.

Secondly get a load of this:
Note how they are going to DOUBLE their route miles. Also get check out the facts and figures on ridership and dollars. How do we get this type of information in the US?

There are 108 Operating Railways and 60 Steam Centres
operating throughout the UK and Eire.
Total route mileage is 384 miles with 279 stations.
This is greater than the London Underground system
and would exceed the distance between London and Glasgow.

New railways & planned extensions to existing
railways could increase this total to 600 miles.
During 2002, heritage railways received 5.4 million visitors of whom 4.6 million rode on our trains.

This resulted in 12 million passenger journeys and 1.7 million passenger train miles.

Heritage railways earned 39 million pounds, 60% of this being from trains journeys, 15% from catering,14% from shops and the remaining 11% mainly from workshops and charter trains.

Thoughts?
Author:  johnacraft [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heritage Railroading Wake Up Call
Mark S Bassett wrote:
I would be interested in hearing some of the reasons why the British are so far ahead of us in rail preservation. Secondly what can we do here to emulate their success.



1. There are 60+ million citizens living in an area smaller than Nevada.

2. Steam lasted 10+ years longer in UK than here.

3. The British have always had a sense of history.

4. The passenger train is still a common method of getting around, and in many cases it is the fastest and most comfortable, so trains haven't disappeared from the public view.

5. British lines are truly "preserved railways" not "tourist lines." There are no automobile carriers converted into coaches, no made-up railway names. Stations are as authentic as possible, including period advertisements and luggage on carts.

6. Most big tourist lines understand marketing, pricing, and promotions as much as valve gear, brake rigging, and ties.

JAC
Author:  jbwest [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heritage Railroading Wake Up Call
I am hardly an expert on British railfans (I guess gricer is their term), but the bits and pieces I've seen suggest the Brits are much more interested in railways than the typical American. When I was working in London even casual cocktail conversation with non-fans often ended up touching on railways in one way or another (usually how bad the commuter delays were). Railways are much more a part of the fabric of current life than in the U.S.

And in general I think the Brits are far more interested in history than the average American, probably because the glory and riches of the British Empire is mostly history, whereas the American "Empire" is current events. I have not seen any numbers, but I bet their expenditure per capita of public monies to support "heritage" (of which railways are an imporant part) is astronomical compared to the U.S.

When I started visiting China it quickly became clear the Brits were the leaders in railfanning there....did most of the exploring and were good folks to follow.

And money follows this interest. I will be with a group of Brits in Guatemala who are paying $17,000 to charter a train for one day, which I believe works out to about $566 per person. In the U.K. they have started work on building a replica steam engine from the ground up.

It's a whole different culture when it comes to railways.

I hope some others with more first hand experience chime in.....the contrast between rail preservation in the U.K. and the U.S. is fascinating.

John West
Author:  Howard P. [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heritage Railroading Wake Up Call
Matt;

A couple of our RMNE volunteers subscribe to and bring copies of Heritage Railway to our office for others of us to see. They are most illuminating.

Yes, the Brits are only about 150 years ahead of us about this stuff. The two Johns (above) basically said it all; the only thing I can add, in my usual non-PC way, is that except for:

parents of Thomas-age kids,
a very few "civilian" folks above age 65 (usually those that never rode a troop sleeper for real),
and those of us who read things like this site--

99% of Americans simply don't care about what we do. And when explained to them, they don't understand why we bother.

In this country, by and large, we trash our history. And if we don't actually trash it, then we let it die by neglect. My opinion only, of course.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heritage Railroading Wake Up Call
To answer the other question, I believe Steam Railway and Steam World might still be in circulation, both focusing on heritage lines and maybe nostalgia as well.

Brother Craft touches on a few important issues. The most important, in my own estimation, is summed up in my simple ugly stereotype: "The average American has the general historical awareness of a tree slug." (I wish I could remember who I stole that from.)

However, do not in any way apply his brush equilaterally. Just as the U.S. has rail "museums" that are a disgrace and operations some folks would pass a hat to buy out and shut down just to get rid of the embarrassment, so does the U.K. The characterizations he lists in #5 definitely apply to the largest dozen--and most well-known--UK heritage railways, but not every line reaches this stunning standard, just as we shouldn't directly compare, say, the Grand Canyon RR/Strasburg with, say, the SW1 hauling some still-smelly VIA or Amtrak cars and a flat car with benches down a nondescript line.

There's also the sense of dedication to purpose which seldom gets addressed here. A railroad like Strasburg wouldn't even think of opening without a station (complete with platforms, and maybe connections with Amtrak) at Leaman Place and a real wayside station at Groff's Grove. And certainly the railroad would strive to make money at each of their termini, but it would feel a lot less like a strip mall and a lot more like a period Main Street with a real restaurant, a bar (that locals would go to in spite of its location), a newsstand/bookstall, etc.

The reality is that there are no cut-and-dried answers to the differences involved; we could have the same discussions over their crime rates, or their average health, or their beer.
Author:  Howard P. [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  One other thing--
One major difference between the UK and US in regard to preserved/historic railways is something called the "Heritage Lottery". ADM4 probably can explain it better than I can, but it provides a large amount of specific govenment funding for railway pereservation projects.

Yes, we have ISTEA and TEA-21 here-- and each state handles them differently. Projects that can get funded in one state are not even considered in another. Bucks (or pounds, or Euros) ultimately make the difference.

Once again, in railway preservation, as Ross Rowland told me in 1971, "It takes MONEY". Yes, he did emphasize that word!
Author:  Mark S Bassett [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heritage Railroading Wake Up Call
Howard P. wrote:
Matt;

99% of Americans simply don't care about what we do. And when explained to them, they don't understand why we bother.

In this country, by and large, we trash our history. And if we don't actually trash it, then we let it die by neglect. My opinion only, of course.


I have to humbly disagree. I recently gave a tour to a group of fourth graders from Las Vegas who came to ride our Polar Express©. The tour came about in a round about way; the group had come to Ely the night before. (Las Vegas is 240 miles away.) They called the museum that morning and said, We’ll being kick out of our motel rooms at 10 am and train time isn’t until 1:00 pm could you give us a tour?

I said yes and there I was surrounded by 60 4th graders and about a dozen parents. Las Vegas isn’t only 240 miles away but it is also 40 degrees warmer. So here it is very cold to them and off we go on a four block walking tour with the wind blowing at 20 mph from the north.

Before we left, I talked to the kids. I tried to engage their imagination. We talked about copper and what it was used for. We talked about living with out a phone and lights. We talked about how there wasn’t even a Las Vegas when the NN Ry was built. I stopped and asked it they had questions. They did and I answered every one of them. We talked about MP3 players and how 85% of the kids had one. (Here’s an opportunity for us. Do our tours as a MP3 file and offer downloads.)

Then we walked outside. We stopped at some boxcars and I asked, ‘How fast could you transport a person before the railroads came?’ We settled on as fast as a horse could gallop. ‘So the ancient Greeks, Romans, the Crusader Knights, Napoleon’s armies, all traveled at the same speed, right? And that was ‘as fast as a horse could gallop’, they shouted back.

There we were standing outside talking about transportation through the ages. Then we went into our machine shop to warm up. It’s a working machine shop. People were working on a lathe, working on old hoppers. We went through the entire shop. I had women wearing designer clothes following me through the shop. They were asking questions also. I made it a point to answer every question. Then it was back to the blacksmith shop. Where I beat a hammer on an anvil. We talked about working here 24/7 all the time I was striking the anvil and answering more questions.

Then it was off to the engine house to watch the crew get locomotive 93 ready for the Polar Express run. We talked about diesel locomotives versus steam locomotives. Then we went back to the machine shop to warm up. And I asked what time was it? Then we talked about standard time. I asked them to imagine themselves living in a world where every town had a different time.

Then it was back to the depot and to lunch. I spoke with the parents and the kids as we walked back. They were full of questions.

Earlier in the year we had another 4th grade class come up from Las Vegas. Three bus loads, over 90 kids. I was the conductor on that train. On the way back, I gave to every child a copy of our newsletter, Ghost Tracks. One of the teachers asked if they could have a group picture with 93 when they came back. I said, yes.

We pulled into the station and all of the kids and teachers went up to the locomotive. One of the brakeman told me he would go through the train and pick up all of the trashed copies of Ghost Tracks from the kids.

I walked up to the locomotive and was included in the group picture. Then one of the kids asked me if I would autograph their copy of Ghost Tracks. Without thinking I said, yes. And you’ve probably guessed it by now, that opened the flood gates. If I did it for one child, I had to do it for all of them. Then the engineer stood in the gangway to see what was going on and he was asked to autograph, then the fireman, then the head brakeman. There we stood autographing over 90 copies of Ghost Tracks. It was enjoyable for the kids and it flattered the heck out of the crew and it made the next train slightly late.

And the brakeman who went through the train to pick up the “trashed” copies, he couldn’t find one.

I don’t mean to ramble on so long, but I believe most Americans are interested in how we got here. We have a fabulous story to tell, but we’re not telling it in a way that is engaging and challenging to the general public.

As person who is responsible for figuring out how to maintain over 62 buildings and structures (that are nearly a century old), 3 steam locomotives, 6 first generation diesels and 60 antique pieces of rolling stock not to mention a massive paper record, I look at what they are doing in Great Britain and ask why not here?
Author:  Dave [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heritage Railroading Wake Up Call
Anyone who has ever owned a British motor vehicle can appreciate why railroads are still the most vital and personal transportation option for all their citizens. Lucas, prince of darkness, and warmer of beer, for one.......

But seriously, folks - there is a great cultural sense of outrage still in the minds of the British populace (having been told by several at different times in different places) over the sacralege wrought by Dr Beeching (sp?) as he nationalized and then cut up the previously colorful privately run companies. I think in many cases, it is a desire to return to the colorful and personalized past represented in railway preservation in the UK that drives a lot of the activity.

dave
Author:  Howard P. [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heritage Railroading Wake Up Call
One thing I love is being proved wrong (yes, I am a provacateur!!).

Nevada Northern is the exception to the rule here in the good 'ol USA. NN is much more like a preserved UK railroad-- even more so. You have:

Original locomotives and rolling stock
Original buildings
Original right of way
Original records and archives
Scenic (but remote) location (but Las Vegas keeps expanding)

Gee, sounds a bit like EBT, eh?

With all that NN has, it is not difficult to tell compelling stories (as you so ably demonstrated to that group). For many of us that pretty much have an "open field" site, perhaps a station, and some stuff on a sidetrack, it's a bit more challenging.

I don't mean to imply that NN has it easy; far from it. But you do have a railroad that is the proverbial "they put their tools down and went home" story. And that it exists, intact and largely unaltered, is an attention-getter. From what I've seen and read (your regular posts about NN in your local newspaper), NN is well on the way to being an American version of Severn Valley or North Yorkshire Moors.

Was that a spontaneous presentation to the tour, or is that a regular "script"? And the MP3 player idea is excellent.
Author:  Mark S Bassett [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One other thing--
Howard P. wrote:
Once again, in railway preservation, as Ross Rowland told me in 1971, "It takes MONEY". Yes, he did emphasize that word!


MONEY can be found if we have a plan. Look at what the Museum of Science and Industry did. They brought in 999 and the Pioneer Zephyr inside along with the U-505. I would love to have heard the board meetings where this came up!

Ah the U-505 is rusting away we need to bring it indoors, too.

What! We already brought in the Pioneer Zephyr and the 999, where are we going to put an ocean going vessel? There’s no room in the building for gosh sakes! (I'm guesing stronger words were used.)

Okay, how about we dig a hole five stories down and lower the submarine into it so it is no longer a Underseas Boat but an Underground Boat. (This is what they actually did, talk about thinking out of the box.)

And as a side note I went to the Museum last December 27th, I figured it would be a slow day, boy I was I wrong. There were only my wife, me and 12,000 other people there at the same time. (Understand that the population of White Pine County, home of the NN Ry is the sixth largest county in the country and has a population 7,500 IF you count every last man, woman, child and pet.)

I was so impressed with that, that I added trains to our schedule to run between Christmas and New Years. This was the first year doing it and I was happy with the result. I think we can build on it.

MONEY can be found, what we need is an industry PLAN
Author:  Mark S Bassett [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heritage Railroading Wake Up Call
Howard P. wrote:
With all that NN has, it is not difficult to tell compelling stories (as you so ably demonstrated to that group). For many of us that pretty much have an "open field" site, perhaps a station, and some stuff on a sidetrack, it's a bit more challenging.


The stories I tell anyone can tell for the most part. They are the stories of railroading.

Howard P. wrote:
I don't mean to imply that NN has it easy; far from it. But you do have a railroad that is the proverbial "they put their tools down and went home" story. And that it exists, intact and largely unaltered, is an attention-getter. From what I've seen and read (your regular posts about NN in your local newspaper), NN is well on the way to being an American version of Severn Valley or North Yorkshire Moors.


A friend of mine once said, "That your strenghs are your weakness and your weakness your strenghs." we all have something to offer. Yes even that rusting pile of metal that we're going to restore before the second coming, is of interest. Its how we present it is the trick.

Howard P. wrote:
Was that a spontaneous presentation to the tour, or is that a regular "script"? And the MP3 player idea is excellent.


The script has been evolving from my own voyage of discovery. I've believed that we need to reach out for a long time to the youth. We have have to understand that believe it or not, not everyone is interested in trains. So we need to reach them with something they understand. And what is more universal than time?
Author:  co614 [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heritage Railroading Wake Up Call
I'll gladly leave the job of explaining why the Brits are so far ahead of us in Ry. preservation to those much better qualified than I.
I can share that the greatest reward I've been blessed with as a result of my efforts has been the wide eyed appreciation of the youngsters who clearly and graphically show that they appreciate the chance to experience a bit of "living history".
We just concluded a sold-out season of Santa trains carrying thousands of youngsters and like Mr. Bassett I make every effort to spend as much time as I can with the kids around the steam engine to encourage their interest, believing that a few of them will become the torch bearers of tomorrow.
While we might well be behind the Brits, I think we've made some important progress in the last 30 years and I'm bullish that we'll continue to grow and preserve our proud and interesting railroad history!
Ross Rowland
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One other thing--
There is unfortunately a vast difference between the Heritage Lottery Trust and the various mutations of TEA:

The Heritage Lottery Trust, as implied by its name was funded by a share of a voluntary lottery programme, similar to state lotteries here in the USA, with the typical long odds (your odds of getting struck by lightning are considered better than that of winning), but the comfort of knowing that your money was going to either the winner or a "good cause". (For more info, visit www.hlf.org.uk )

TEA programs are administered by politicians and bureaucrats with funds taken from citizens from semi-voluntary taxation, under threat of imprisonment and/or confiscation of assets. Never mind the "pork barrel" aspects of the program--can someone honestly tell me how (to create a sufficiently neutral example so as not to offend anyone here) the restoration of an old C&O canal boat is "an improvement in transportation efficiency"???? Bollocks!

I'll leave it to you folks to decide which system is better. As for myself, I would fall over myself to apply for a Heritage Lottery Fund grant if I were eligible, but even to this day I consider ISTEA/TEA-21/etc. money to be "tainted," and I have even actually argued against one organization applying for said funds.

But I ask: If a national lottery were established in the USA, with proceeds going to replace the National Endowment for the Arts/Humanities, the National Park Service, TEA grants for historic preservation, etc., wouldn't you be a more enthusiastic lottery ticket purchaser than the current system (where states decide to spend the monies on education, senior citizens, etc. as they need to)???
Author:  Bob Kutella [ Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heritage Railroading Wake Up Call
Maybe we need tours and interpretive activites, but those are often intimidating to the typical volunteer that came out to scrape rust, or wash windows. But this can be done one step at a time.

For years I have worked on a yellow streetcar and this year left the doors open for visitors to walk in while I was working, since the car had been relocated to a more favorable location. As small children tenuously peered inside I would ask their help to "test" a button on the floor of the car. Most were hesitant but after they stepped on the button and the loud gong sounded below, you could not get them to stop. Everyone wanted to try.

While this was going on we would engage in conversation with the adults, and discovered a few who remebered the cars in Oklahoma over 50 years ago, one man whose grandmother rode this very car to market in Ohio over 70 years ago, and many, many visitors who had a relative in some way connected to railroading.

All they really needed was a conversation starter and a willing listener. So the general visitor can and should be able to make a connection to trains.

AND more than once, later in the season, we had repeat visits from the same family. One little tyke saw me and asked of the yellow car was open so he could try again to ring the gong. He was not as tall as a yardstick but learned that first time, and remembered it. The parents were very proud and eager to build on that connection. Other kids would race ahead of the adults to peer inside the barn doors and gleefully shout 'the yellow car is open again'.

These are the types of small steps that ANY museum volunteer can do, and which will be remembered by the public and undoubtedly be retold to their friends and neighbors.

Bob Kutella
Author:  eldiner [ Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heritage Railroading Wake Up Call
Quote:
The most important, in my own estimation, is summed up in my simple ugly stereotype: "The average American has the general historical awareness of a tree slug." (I wish I could remember who I stole that from.)


That line was from E.M. "Frimbo" Whitaker
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