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614 operating question
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19589		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  firefighter25dfd [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  614 operating question
I was watching a 614 dvd the other day and noticed the engineers press down on what looks like the locomotive brake handle a pretty good bit. What's this do while operating the locomotive?


thanks
Author:  Howard P. [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 614 operating question
If it's the automatic brake valve ("train brake"), it releases ("bails off") the independent brake ("engine brake" or "driver brake"), in order to keep the train slack stretched for smooth handling. There is quite an art to doing this properly.
Author:  firefighter25dfd [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 614 operating question
id say thats what it is then, thanks. But every steam video or cab ive rode in, ive only seen it done on the 614 when she is just crusing down the tracks
Author:  Jack A. Siffert [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 614 operating question
If it's got 6 brake equipment sometimes you need to contiunly bail the independent. Some more than others
Author:  Howard P. [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 614 operating question
614 was built with 24 brake, and I think it was refitted with 26 during the 1995 rework in advance of the NJ Transit trips.
Author:  Txhighballer [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 614 operating question
It could also be acknowledgement of the Automatic Train Stop equipment,which 614 is equipped with. When a train passes a restrictive signal,a whistle sounds in the cab. The engineer has to acknowledge this whistle or a penalty barake application will set the brakes on the train.
Since I'm not sure exactly what sort of ATS equipment 614 has,this is only a guess.
Author:  Bobk [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 614 operating question
Sometimes an engineer will keep slapping the independant while just cruising along into the Bail off position to make certain that the engine brakes are not creeping into a set.
Author:  firefighter25dfd [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 614 operating question
thanks for all the quick responses
Author:  co614 [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 614 operating question
As part of our deal with the State of NJ and the Port Jervis program, NJTransit fitted the 614 with a 26 brake system and with a Union Switch&Signal cab signal/overspeed/ats system in 1998. To accomplish the installation of the cab-signal system with its microprocessor required the complete rewireing of the loco. and the installation of a bank of batteries to supply constant voltage to the system. One of 614's turbo-generators was modified to keep the bank of batteries charged.
What you witnessed on the video was the engineer repeatedly "bailing-off" the independant or engine brake to make sure it wasn't creeping on as at high speeds it doesn't take long to dangerously heat up the driver tires should the engine brake become applied.
After we got a few bugs out of the system it worked perfectly.
Ross Rowland
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 614 operating question
C'mon Ross, when are we gonna see her hot and running again?
Author:  Benjamin True [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 614 operating question
You just made a direct hit on something I've been wondering about, and occasionally bugging our electrican at work about.

How do event recorder/alerters/ ats/ whatever other modern devices that are out there coexist with steam locomotives?

Our electrican claims that Quantum (who the Buckingham Branch uses for all there speed recorders and alerter retrofits) would more than likely be able to build one for 32 volts. I've wondered wether or not a steam generator would be able to keep it as happy as the aux. gen on a deisel. I've also wondered if you could get the same range of data collected (obviously braking and speed wouldn't be too hard, but would amperage be able to be transfered in to something like steam chest pressure??)
The questions go on and on. Has any one ever looked at this seriously before?
Author:  ATK [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 614 operating question
I'm curious about this as well. This is obviously easy enough with a diesel locomotive as the cab signal or alerter system opens PCS and creates a penalty brake application thereby bringing the train to a stop, but how is this accomplished on a steam locomotive? It should be easy enough to create a penalty brake application, but how does such a train control system restrict the locomotive from "taking power"? (I realize this is not the right term -- sorry, I'm a diesel guy!)
Author:  mxdata [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:31 am ]
Post subject:  Event Recorders and Steam Locomotives
Ben and ATK, As far as the event recorder is concerned, the Quantum recorder's power consumption is very low and there would be a variety of options for powering it. The event recorder can be adapted to monitor most any suitable pressure transducer or hi/lo input.

On the question of how you would prevent a steam locomotive from "taking power" (in diesel terminology), this could be done too, without too much sophistication. I have seen suitable rigs used in a variety of non-railroad applications. It would require a sliding link (maybe a rod and tube arrangement) with a disconnect solenoid, applied to the existing control linkage, and a positioning device, like an air cylinder. Once the normal control end of the linkage has been disconnected by the solenoid, the cylinder would force the disconnected end of the linkage to the penalty position. The cylinder would not normally have to be connected to the mechanical linkage, it could just push against a stub welded to the linkage. If you wanted to center the power reverse gear you might want two cylinders working in opposition to each other, to make sure the power reverse goes to actual centered position. Any necessary timing for applying the control movement to "penalty" position could be provided by a small PLC or possibly even a small relay logic switching system, since you would already have suitable control voltage available. Another possibility for control of the penalty timing would be to regulate it pneumatically through the use of volume reservoirs, check valves, and chokes.

If you want to put PHW nine aspect cab signals and ACSES on the steam locomotive, you will need to find a lot of room for the card boxes, and a place to mount the transponder antenna. Lots of money would help too.
Author:  co614 [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Event Recorders and Steam Locomotives
Rather than go through a lengthy(and expensive) drill as described by MXData, on the 614 we simply installed a small talgo switch on the throttle quadrant at about the 1/3 point on the quadrant and programmed it to tell the microprocessor that at that position the throttle was closed thus satisfying the systems need for a "power off" event.
As far as the real world aspects of this arrangement-with a full service penalty application the train was going to come to a very fast stop regardless of the throttle setting and the last thing one wants to do is completely shut the throttle at high speed and thus rob the valves/pistons of lubrication.
We found that it all worked very well in the real world. On one of the trips in '98 I had a home signal drop from CLEAR to ALL STOP just before we went under it and the system functioned exactly as it should have. I made a full service application while returning the throttle to the 1/3 position and we came to a safe stop. The dispatcher confirmed that it was a signal malfunction and we were soon on our way.
Ross Rowland
Author:  Kelly Anderson [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  .
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