Is there anyone out there who needs replacement wooden sash Pullman windows? The Age of Steam Museum in Dallas has several heavyweight Pullman sleepers (Glengyle, McQuaig, Glen Nevis and Goliad) in need of new windows and has found a shop to make them but would like to do a large enough run to make it worthwhile. Glen Nevis is also in need of replacement diaphragms and associated hardware and an end door to replace a residential door that was on the car when donated.

Ben Kroger
Dallas, Texas

There are many Pullman built cars (not just sleepers) that need these parts so depending on what kind of economies of scale exist, you would probably be able to find buyers eventually. This is especially true for windows, which deteriorate rather quickly outdoors.

I am actually suprised that the Illinois Railway Museum, which has several Pullman cars in need of windows, the Pullman drawings and a well equipped wood shop - hasn't done this already.

Before starting production en-masse - It might be a good idea to check to make sure that these parts are indeed interchangable. The Passenger Car List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PassengerCarList might be a good place to ask - as detail oriented modelers (of which there are a few on this group) seem to have a good sense of variances in such appliances and how they changed over time.

Tom Cornillie

I would take issue that IRM has not worked to replace wood sash windows in Pullman cars. I have worked on several, and at least one car has an almost entire new set. We are currently working on sash for B&LE 25, while not strictly a "Pullman" car, still a heavyweight car design.

These are not strictly one size fits all. There are many in each car, and in some cases add in wood sash storm windows too.

We try to be authentic in materials, jointery, and finish. Meaning mortise and tenon corners, authentic profile and beading, and mostly the use of genuine mahogany which is becoming harder to find economically, or maybe even at inflated prices.

While our shop has the ability to do all this woodwork, there can be a question of the lost art or skills needed, as well as tooling. {A large effort has been expended by members in creating this shop using vintage machines, themselves worthy museum pieces, and maintaing this shop in use is another effort requiring committment}

Making one good replacement window can take 8 hours or more (cumulatively) in the shop. Making 10 maybe 60 hours, a whole car set ???? Most volunteers come out for a few hours or few days a month and even without the finishing work (an important part) refitting one car can be a significant expense and investment in time.

I am currently in the middle of making 11 new arch topped windows for one of our trolley cars and even though relatively small, we have spent almost 400 bucks for the rough wood. Consider larger heavyweight sash and some labor, setup and tooling - I would be interested in the projected cost of the new sash. I would not at all be surpised at $200 per frame, unfinished, no glazing. The trolley car in question has 96 lites of glass - you do the math.

Bob Kutella

But Bob, the original post was specifically about sash for heavyweight Pullman sleepers... and the Pullman Co. was at least as standardized as the "Standard Railroad of the World", if not more so. While there are about four different sized sash used, those standard sizes should fit almost any car in the fleet. However, people getting involved in this should be aware that rebuilt "Gothic" cars, such as IRM's Inglehome, used different window framing than the later heavyweight cars, although I'm not certain that it affected the size of the sash. Check before committing.

I would also be interested in the construction details of the replacement sash (wood species, type of joinery, are the rails coped for the bead on the styles, etc.), the cost per sash, and whether the price includes wooden glass bead molding.

Boband Dennis,

I think the question was not weather IRM has or is making sash; (es to both. But if the museum might be willing to assist smaller museums with some of their wood working needs.

Pullaman Car being a good example of a builder with some standardized wood working practice.

It is too bad that for many museums outside display of cars is the only alternitive. That leads to constant loss of wood and metal historic fabric. Yes even a pullman heavyweight can loose significant amounts of the historic fabric that makes it so special.

To say nothing of the inside stuff that is even more fragile; like painted murals, upholistered furniture and small fittings.

This is a reply about the Pullman Library drawings for passenger car windows. I suspect that if you have one good window of the right dimensions, it is straightforward to measure the others and duplicate that window. Should there be any question, or it is desired to make an exact duplicate of an original window we are in a position to help. For an IRM car we supplied an important set of drawings for special sealed steel windows that actually would swing out for replacement. In that case I was able to locate all window drawings, especially for the special rubber gasketing that was needed. End of the story is that those windows are nearly complete with brand-new panes to replace the nearly opaque or cracked originals. For early wood passenger cars (after 1890) we are finding a few Gothic windows so even on that end of the age spectrum there is hope.
Sincerely, Ted Anderson