Beginning of the end of old boilers...

M Austin · **Posted:** Sun Jul 29, 2001 9:14 pm

County Fair Steam Tractor explodes, 3 dead so far.

Menida County Fair Boiler Explosion

Mike Pearle · **Posted:** Sun Jul 29, 2001 9:44 pm

> County Fair Steam Tractor explodes, 3 dead
> so far.

Lets not panic, they aren't regulated by the FRA, and if the Preservation movement survived the Gettysburg incident in 1996, this won't stop Steam Locomotives.

No doubt, it'll be a problem for steam tractors and such.

Mike Shirk · **Posted:** Sun Jul 29, 2001 10:53 pm

www.cnn.com has a good overhead shot of the overturned tractor. Looks like a Case.

mshirk@DELETEix.netcom.com

Rob Gardner · **Posted:** Sun Jul 29, 2001 11:09 pm

Newschannel 5 in Cleveland now reports 4 are dead as of about 10:30 tonight.

train@nls.net

HRMO'Biph · **Posted:** Sun Jul 29, 2001 11:45 pm

Everything I have seen indicates that it was a low water crown sheet failure. it appeared to be a large, late model Case with a butt strap boiler.

As an owner/operator of traction engines myself,(all under inspection), I have a great deal of respect for the need for safety. An old boiler man who'd spent his life around steam once told me that a careful, knowledgeable, experienced boiler man could operate a less than perfect boiler with safety, but a brand new, perfectly constructed boiler would kill a careless man.

Our prayers are with all affected.

Allen · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2001 12:23 am

> Lets not panic, they aren't regulated by the
> FRA, and if the Preservation movement
> survived the Gettysburg incident in 1996,
> this won't stop Steam Locomotives.
> No doubt, it'll be a problem for steam
> tractors and such.

Such a lovely attitude, "not a locomotive, so its not 'our' problem"...It is time to face the fact that all the steam fraternity (traction, stationary, model AND railroad) really has is each other. We don't have big lobbies like the airline, or automobile industries to prevent kneejerk reationary legislation from crippling all facets of the hobby, one at a time.

This was a tragic accident, period, and my heart goes out to all the families.

M Austin · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2001 12:40 am

Nobody died at Gettysburg...

> Lets not panic, they aren't regulated by the
> FRA, and if the Preservation movement
> survived the Gettysburg incident in 1996,
> this won't stop Steam Locomotives.

> No doubt, it'll be a problem for steam
> tractors and such.

Menida County Fair Boiler Explosion

Patrick Traubert · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2001 1:33 am

> Nobody died at Gettysburg...

It should not take someone being killed to inspire safe operation of antique steam - RR, Traction, Stationary or Marine. I think more people should attend schools like those put on by the Oklahoma Steam Threshers who have an annual show at Pawnee, Ok. every year. Education is essential. I would hope the lawyers would stay at home over this incident - bet they don't!

pwtraubert@aol.com

Dave · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2001 8:09 am

Boilers don't explode randomly nor do they plan to explode with malice aforethought.

Guns don't kill people, people kill other with guns.

More people die in auto accidents in an afternoon than in boiler explosions in a decade.

Let's try to keep a reasonable and considered POV here. This boiler failed for a reason, either a flaw was not dectected due to incompetent inspection, a repair was improperly made, or it was improperly operated or maintained.

People did all of the possibile things mentioned above, not the boiler itself. If we need to legislate, lets legislate educational and licensing standards and apply them to the people involved in inspecting, repairing, and operating boilers rather than condemn a benign and useful technology itself out of hand.

If Gettysburg taught us anything, it is just how overbuilt and idiot resistant steam locomotive boilers are. Many problems were allowed to stack up and multiply until, after extensive abuse, critical margins were used up and failure occurred.

Eliminating the idiot factor is all we need to do.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Ken Riddle · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2001 10:05 am

I understand it was a 110hp Case. The local cops were ticketing the guy for running on a county road with iron wheels when she blew up. I understand the tractor was owned by a nearby farm and the cops followed them into the fairgrounds.

Hot fire, pulling the crew off the engine to ticket them--you can see what happened. There are some pictures on yahoo that show it pretty well. Sure looks like a crownsheet failure.

Dave is exactly right--that boiler would not blow itself up.

ET&WNC Narrow Gauge, old and new!
ken290@hiwaay.net

Ray Dewley · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2001 11:24 am

In discussing this with a friend today who has been around steam machinery for years and years, and owns a Buffalo steam roller, he brought up the subject of a fusable plug. If it had one, and I hope it did, and it was a crownsheet explosion as many suggest (the pictures above and beside I've seen of it don't tell me much other then it flipped over minus a boiler), the plug should have done its job to some extent. Being a 110 hp Case, I assume it's a rather modern one that SHOULD have a fusable plug in the crown sheet. It may be a good reminder to check yours out and replace it (by a qualified individual) if it has any age to it (there are FRA regs concerning plugs if they are used that they are inspected and cleaned of scale once a month and noted on insp. report). Cheap insurance. Then again, the Gettysburg engine didn't use them and its water was many inches below the crown sheet before the oops....

Please post links to the close up photos of the boiler.

gettysburg engine NTSB report

Paul D · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2001 12:44 pm

I agree that boilers don't explode by themselves, or rather, without a good reason. I am awaiting the report from the local authority regarding the cause. With the limited amount of info available I can speculate several senerios. I will say that I have seen some rather frightening traction engines fired up and ready to go and a lot of anti regulatory views to go with them.

I don't blame the technology but every object has a useful life and will fail even with the best care. What the best care does is spot the indications of failure before it fails under use.

I doubt that the railroad industry will see any changes in the rules, only more informed inspectors. The real impact will be on the steam traction shows and the live steam arena.

Paul D.

pfdx@aol.com

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2001 1:03 pm

Latest update, including photos (that was one BIG Case tractor, guys!!!!):
http://www.wkyc.com/news/morelocal/medi ... losion.ssf

http://www.wkyc.com/news/morelocal/medina/010729explosion.ssf
LNER4472@bcpl.net

jimwrinn · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2001 1:25 pm

Is there a web discussion page for tractor people like this one?

I'd love to read if if someone knows of one; I'm especially curious to know what PSI the tractors operate at.

We should watch this one closely for any lessons we can learn and apply in the steam locomotive field.

http://nctrans.org
Wrinnbo@aol.com

Erik Ledbetter · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2001 1:47 pm

> Is there a web discussion page for tractor
> people like this one?

This page ought to get you started, Jim...

http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/kb13/steam/

Steam tractors links
eledbetter@mail.rypn.org

Beginning of the end of old boilers...

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