Appears that one of the last extant (if not the last) ex-NYC U30B's was scrapped on the property of the RBM&N RR in PA. I am not sure of the number-could be 2882 ?

If the supplied information is correct, the last assignment for the locomotive was the Railtours operation out of Jim Thorpe, PA.

By my calculation, the remaining ex-NYC U series fleet is two units, the former 2500 (U25B@ Northeast, PA) and the Mohawk and Hudson owned 2510 (which is in rough shape).

To compare these numbers with contempory ex-NYC Alco and EMD units,
there are two RS-32 units in service on A&M and GVT-along with four C-430's owned by LA&L ( 3 in service-1 stored). Suspect that all the GP-20's and 30's are gone-but there may be some 35's (heavily modified) and perhaps two dozen GP-40's that were converted to GP-38 variants.

Dave

There was a 2884 which went from SRNJ to a broker/re-builder in Ohio, then to NE Pa. Could this be the unit?

I remember 2884 as a good running machine, but the body was falling apart, typical of the GEs of the period. Too bad they didn't put as much care into building the 'boats as they did with the 44 tonners and other earlier units.

There is a nice NYC GP-9 alive and well on the W&W, if anyone is tracking NYC survivors. I'm not sure of it's original NYC number, but I could find out

I think 2884 is the correct unit number.

EDM makes a good (and previously unremarked) point about the quality of the carwork on the 44 tonners vs. the U series-and probably the later GE production as well.

In fact, the carwork on all the GE industrial units I've ever seen compares more favorably to Alco diesel production than to the U series. The most obvious difference is the thickness' of the long hood doors on a Universal. GE doors are obviously more 'tinny' than Alco and have a piece of angle set diagonally to serve as a stiffener.

Walking across the top surface of the radiator and engine cabs on a GE does not inspire much confidence when the metal oilcans beneath ones' feet.

Yet another example of (what is now called) 'value engineeering' by GE.

Dave

If you actually dig into how many NYC diesels are surviving, I bet you will be amazed..
so far in this thread, about 5 locos are accounted for.
I wouldnt be surprised if the actual number is 50-100.

I have compiled a list of LV survivors and EL survivors, the numbers are 54 and 86! respectively.
and the NYC was much bigger than either the LV or EL..

http://www.frontiernet.net/~scottychaos/LVRR_locomotives.html

http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/Erie-Lackawanna-Survivors/

Scot

Some ex-NYC GP40s are still hustling for Union Pacific. They came to UP by way of CNW.

http://www.utahrails.net/cnw/cnw09.php#5500-gp40
http://www.utahrails.net/all-time/all-time-13.php#gp40-685
http://www.utahrails.net/all-time/all-time-73.php#gp40-9967
http://www.utahrails.net/all-time/all-time-38.php#gp38-2-2527
http://www.utahrails.net/all-time/all-time-27.php#gp38-2-1027

There may also be others on UP that did not come from CNW.

Erich

EDM:

I, for one, would be interested in the number of the ex-NYC GP9 now on the W&W. Is she in service? Does she still have her high short hood, or has she had it chopped?

Would also like to see a list of ex-NYC diesels extant, if anyone has one.

Les

Metro-North had (has?) an ex-NYC GP-9 number 750.

This is a passenger unit, with high short hood and air tanks mounted up on the roof. Last time I saw the thing (1991), the steam generator was still intact-if not actually functional.

A very fine ( and unmolested) example of the breed.

Dave

Just to clarify, the fact that perhaps both the last U30B was scrapped, which also happened to be the last surviving New York Central (NYC) U30B, and the question as to how many NYC diesels survive are two very seperate issues.

The U30B was siginificant as a model (and to the NYC) in showing the evolution of GE's design of road diesels and the trend toward railroads demanding locomotives with ever higher horsepower begining in the early 1960's. Losing this model completely is a significant loss for the ability to interpret this period of the railroad industry.

Counting the number of New York Central locomotives has limited usefulness - as their significance depends on how they were used and how intact they remain from when they worked for the NYC. Coming up with a number (I would suggest that at least 50 NYC diesels remain) creates a heard mentaility that obscures the significance of the individual locomotives.

Tom Cornillie

I disagree. It depends on what your goal is. If you desire to make sure that a New York Central diesel is preserved, knowing there are 50 of them total can give you an idea of the urgency of saving any specific unit. For example, I know of only 2 Lehigh & New England diesels remaining so you really have no choice but try to get either one if your goal is to preserve L&NE diesels. Other than the glamor diesels (E units, Alco PA, Baldwin Sharknose) I think we all get too hung up on saving specific models. Does it matter to the public if you have a GP7 or a GP9? If you are the New York Central Museum in Elkhart, IN (just as an example - I don't know anyone there) shouldn't the goal be to display a NYC diesel that ran through town every day rather than a specific model?

Collection planning is based on what stories that the institution will try to tell through its collection. As such, the story of the individual items is very important. The question as to whether not ‘a’ diesel survives from a given railroad is only the first question. For example, there is a former NYC SC surviving. However its story is very different than that of the U-30B. Lets suppose for a moment that that museum scraps the SC (a real possibility given the unit’s current condition) and decides to acquire a former NYC GP-40. Both are diesels, however the SC has the potential to illustrate the first implementation of diesel locomotives and the early mass production of diesel locomotives. However the NYC GP-40 can be used to show how railroads sought higher horsepower locomotives to achieve greater economies of scale by being able to use 3 units to replace 4 units on road freights.

Instead of thinking about what “matters” to the public we should be instead thinking about what stories we can tell the public, both in the immediate and long term future. Simply being able to say that this is what a NYC diesel looked like does not satisfy the critical So What questions – why is this important? – why should I care?. In as such, Knowing the history of specific models allow us to be able to tell specific stories – and to be able to better connect the history of a specific unit to larger historic events. I agree that a given museum may place a priority on other factors (The NYC museum in Elkart is a good example). However, delving into the deeper significance of a given object brings forth a broader number of stories that it can tell, and how it would fit into different collection plans.


Tom Cornillie

What exactly remains of the L&NE diesal roster? Did any of the Alco's survive?

I created the LV survivors list for nothing more than curiosity..
I just wanted to know how many LV survivors there are, where they are, and what they are doing. I wasnt thinking beyond that.

but! because of the existance of the list, Greg from the Sayre Historical Society discovered a LV U23B sitting "just down the road" from sayre and immediately got to work getting it donated and preserved.
The engine is scheduled to arrive in Sayre this year and will be cosmetically restored and repainted in LV colors.

If it werent for "list of survivors" no one would have known about it, and it would probably be scrapped already. one of its sister LV U-boats at the same facility was scrapped a few months ago.

so having a list of survivors has proven to be a great aid in preservation..you have to know where they are before you can preserve them! ;)
(actually..first you have to know that they even exist!)

As far as I know, there is no master list of survivors for NYC or PRR.
I know there is for LV, EL, D&H, and Reading.
If no one else wants to take it on, I will start a NYC list..
(if someone else *does* want to take it on, please feel free! :) im a bit listed-out at the moment..)

Scot

Check out this link and feel free to add new information to bring the thread closer to the top. It helps the forum to function more efficently by adding to old threads and keeping new threads on topic.

Tom Cornillie

http://rypn.sunserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1621&highlight=lne+alco

Believe that the FRRS Society may have an ex-WP U30B in their collection.

an addendum:

This locomotive has been for sale at (what I believe to be) an inflated price for perhaps several years. Given the fact that there has been historically little interest in used U-series in the secondary market, it was no surprise to me that the thing was scrapped.

Seems to me that based upon $100-$120/ ton prepared scrap, I would assume that the price the scrapper paid was way below the asking price.

The fact that there are so few U-series left is no less significant than any of the technical details. If nothing else, there are some wonderful O scale models that can be had for a fraction of the cost of the full sized item

-------------------------------------------

Dave

I spoke with the previous owner of the unit today. He had it for sale for a while, and had sold it about 6-8 months ago to an outfit that was planning to move it to Texas. He told me he offered to set up the rates, UMLER registration through RPCA, etc. The new owners apparently thought they knew better, and tried their own methods. After the loco did not move to Texas, they recently decided it was worth $75-80K as parts (!!!!) and have henceforth cut it up. The previous owner told me he would have considered buying it back, but for a realistic price. He was pretty sad to see it cut up.....

NO old GE road unit is worth $75K.