At Galesburg, Illinois in 1961, before shipment to Burlington, Iowa for display by the depot:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1961-Chicago-Burlin ... dZViewItem

These are among my most very favorite and there are several around - IRM has one and there is one by the Galesburg depot. I know that we don't want/don't need any more big steam right now but these long-legged ladies are on the short list for me when "I win the Lotto".

And I live on the left coast!

Scott

They are beautiful elegant machines. But I wish that the Burlington had saved one less Hudson and saved at least one of their M-4 class 2-10-4's that I remember from my youth. Unfortunately every last one of them ended up at Northwestern Steel & Wire, where Ron Ziel documented the destruction of #6316 of the class in "The Twighlight of the Steam Locomotive."

Kevin,
I have to agree with you about trading a Hudson for a Colorado. I cannot believe that Beardstown did not request a 2-10-4. Centralia had/has the IC 4-8-2 so I suspect that they didn't need two display steam locomotives. A 2-10-4 would have been appropriate for Galesburg, too, but I suspect that they wanted a smaller locomotives so they got the 4-6-4.

I only saw two of them in the flesh, 6315 doubleheaded with 5632 and an almost intact 6319 at Sterling waiting to be scrapped in about 1964. What a shame.

Don C.

NW Steel used at least one, and perhaps more as stationary boilers. I was told that Nelson Blount went there to inspect them for possible rescue. Alas, the drivers had been butchered and pony and trailing trucks cut away. Shortly thereafter, one had a major boiler mishap. They were cut up in their entirety.

Isn't the B&LE loco that survives identical to the Q engines?

Smokebox

Yes, or nearly so.

I think one of the major differences was the Burlington's desire to make more of a "manifest" engine out of them rather than a "drag" engine. The M4 class received Boxpok main drivers, lightweight rods and reciprocating parts and roller bearings. The cylinder bore was reduced from 31" to 28" which reduced the tractive effort from 90,000 to 83,300. They were reclassified as M4A. Visually, they are quite close in appearances.

Don C.

Concerning the Burlington's S-4 Hudson's, what is REALLY sad to me is to learn now, much after the fact, that the CB&Q had shopped one of the oil-burning 4-6-4's and then never used it! If the Q's President Harry Murphy had held the locomotive in reserve, he could have earmarked IT as a replacement for the 5632 when that engine needed major repairs upon his retirement. Perhaps new President Menk might have let the S-4 continue in service since it was "ready to go." We would still probably have lost the 5632 (a sad state in itself) but perhaps Q steam might have lasted a bit longer. AND, maybe the other Hudson would have also been preserved.

All conjecture of course. But something to wonder about.

Les

When Menk retired the 5632 and the 4960, railfans distributed "Menk is a Fink" buttons. Had the CB&Q retired them, both might have wound up preserved, but history had other plans. We got a few more trips out of the Northern, but at a terrible price. This is the stuff of which Greek tragedies are written. The "Q" probably wouldn't have cut her up, but we'll never know.

"We got a few more trips out of the Northern, but at a terrible price."

Richard,
I think you are confusing GTW 4-6-2 #5629 with CB&Q 4-8-4 #5632. Jensen did operate the Pacific but the Northern never ran under his program. It was in pieces (and a couple of boxcars) when he got it and I believe it stayed that way, for the most part. As for #5629, I'm glad that I had the opportunity to make a couple of trips behind her prior to her tragic demise.

Les,
I believe that the Hudson to which you are referring was #4001. She received repairs in Denver, was towed to Lincoln and never steamed. She was "one-of-a-kind" , the last "Q" Hudson built - the second "Alice" - and the only 4-6-4 with a vestibule cab. She looked, for all the world, like one of the 5608 through 5620 O5's, just missing a pair of drivers. Even if she had not steamed under the "Q" program, think of the possibilities if she would have been placed on display for one of the present-generation restorers to have considered her for operation. I strongly suspect that the most conveniently located engines in the deadline were the ones that received the reprieve, not the ones that were in the best mechanical condition. Realistically, who would have thought in the late 1950's to the early 1960's that a movement would emerge to operate big, mainline engines with no railroad sponsorship? I seriously doubt that any engine was given away with the idea that it would ever steam again therefore no consideration was given to anything but their cosmetic conditon. As sad as the Jensen legacy is, he did prove that it could be done. Paul Merriman (4501) and Bill Benson (2102) further refined the movement for Ross Rowland (CPR Pacifics and NKP 759) to make it blossom. Where would we be today without these men's determination, guts and self-sacrifice?

Don C.

Don, I will defer to your knowledge, as I was pretty young when the 5632 made her last runs, however I thought she was Jensen's when she ran in gold paint. I could be in error. Either way, both locomotives were in Jensen's ownership when they met their similar fates, and it is easy to confuse them due to their numbers.
Whether the O5 was the "Q's" or Jensen's, the loss was both unnecessary and aggravated. I believe a court hearing found in Jensen's favor.

One the subject of Hudson's; We are indeed fortunate to have adequate representation of these beautifully designed, fast, heavy, passenger locomotives. When the climate to operate steam once again warms, perhaps one of these fine engines will warm as well.

Don:

You are correct; # 4001 is the Burlington Hudson I was thinking of.

As for the operation of Q steam trips at the end, here I am a bit confused. Certainly O5b Northern # 5632 never ran under the Menk administration (her Burlington "overhaul" that had been started by President Murphy was halted by Menk while she was in pieces.) But I THINK that there were some final fan trips in the Menk era using Mike # 4960. Or am I wrong on this? Perhaps those final trips were run while Murphy was still President. Do you know? My memory fails me.

I agree that those individuals (Jensen, Merriman, Benson, Rowland, etc.) and orginizations, that moved to purchase "big steam" for continued operation, deserve our kudos.

Finally, I too miss the fact that the CB&Q did not save at least one of their Colorago 2-10-4's. I too rode behind the 6315 on that doubleheader with # 5632. I also saw, and photographed, # 6323 in the roundhouse at Beardstown. Other M4a's were out in the Beardstown yard looking ratty, but 6323 was immaculate. My guess was that she had been repaired last and was being held as protection power (which I am sure never was needed.) But now I wonder if perhaps she was being held for donation there to Beardstown, which never materialized. Wonder who would know?
And you are correct Don that the B&LE 2-10-4's are visually similar to the Burlington's M4's. The reason for that is that the Bessemer was looking for a locomotive to replace their slow moving 2-10-2's. They went to Baldwin, which was building the second series of Burlington 2-10-4's at the time. The B&LE decided to try one, probably tacking on their lone ordered engine on to the end of the Burlington order. B&LE # 601 apparently proved succesful, because the railroad ordered 46 additional copies beginning that next year (1930) and continuing until 1944. So surviving # 643 is a duplicate of the Burlington M4 2-10-4's as originally delivered. So Don (and Kevin), there is your surving Q Colorado. Just needs some cosmetic changes. Ready to tackle it?

Les

http://steamlocomotive.com/union/jensen.shtml

"In 1964 5632 was painted with temporary (water-based) gold paint to help commemorate the 100th anniversary of CB&Q's suburban service. Chicago - Aurora runs were made on May 20, 1964 (a mid-week trip - on the actual day) and on May 23rd. The May 23rd trip consisted of a record number of passengers (about 3500) for a CB&Q fan trip (22 coaches were used). By June, 5632 was once again painted black. However, 5632 was again painted gold to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the opening of Kansas City Union Station with a trip to St. Joseph on October 31, 1964 and a trip to Bevier, Missouri on November 1. The trip on November 1, 1964 proved to be 5632's final (CB&Q excursion) trip for when she returned to Galesburg, she was stored unserviceable with no further extension on flue removal."


Jensen never operated 5632.

JAC

Richard,
The 5632's gold paint job (the first time) was for the "Q" celebration of the 100 year anniversary of the "east end" between Aurora and Chicago. My grandparents took me to Aurora to see the arrival of the Wednesday evening train which carried Mr. Murphy and his invited guests. On Saturday, I talked my parents into taking to Aurora to see the 4-8-4 on the record setting train that she hauled back to Chicago. What really made that week so great was the fact that the previous weekend, I rode a trip behind the 5632 from Chicago to Galesburg via the Denrock branch and then back to Chicago doubleheaded with 4960. What a great seven days for a 13 year old kid!

Les,
Harry Murphy retired September 30, 1965. I seem to remember that the first inkling of the end of the trips was initially rumored on the November 1965 trip to Savanna, IL. Of course, the rumors eventually came true and the end came on July 17, 1966. No, the '32 never ran in the Menk era.

Don C.