Concerning this newspaper piece on abandoned railcars at Traverse City, Michigan - I'm assuming the tourist RR there is long dead, but do the tracks still remain? Some years ago, I wrote a letter of support for the guy trying to keep them down, but never heard what happened afterward.

http://www.record-eagle.com/2006/feb/02train.htm

The article linked above mentions a "box car" however following links to other articles revealed this photo:

Tom Cornillie

http://www.record-eagle.com/2005/oct/31boxcar.htm

Here is a link to information on the passenger car:

http://www.clintoncountyarts.org/pr26.htm



Wesley

The Tuscola & Saginaw Bay still visits Traverse City 3-4 times a week (or as demand warrants).

A history of the tourist RRs in this area - and the parties involved - could fill up a book, but I will try to summarize here:

There was a tourist RR named the Leelanau Scenic Railroad that ran north of T.C. on ex-C&O trackage that is mostly gone. Bob Carr - who is also a party to these cars - was a principal in this RR. People have (and I am being kind) mixed opinions of him. His latest endeavor was to restore the ex-FEC 148 with an outside investor's money. That effort never went anywhere, and the 148 was moved to a group in Colorado. The 148 restoration was done near these pieces of equipment, and these cars were used for tools and storage.

The last time I was there several years ago there was the switcher, which has friction bearings, and a heavily-modified boxcar used as a storage shed. I think the heavyweight coach was there as well.

T&SB still has in the area the ex-PRR line to the south down to Walton Junction and part of the ex-C&O in town, which goes past the ex-C&O depot. This trackage was used in recent years by the T.C. Dinner Train as well.

Chris.

Here's corrected information on the wood car. Assuming the Clinton County Arts Council is correct that the car name is Sault Ste. Marie, it is a Duluth South Shore and Atlantic sleeping car, not a Soo Line business car. I've been working with a group compiling roster information on Soo line and South shore passenger cars, and the Soo never had a car named Sault Ste. Marie. However, the DSS&A did:

Built by Barney & Smith Car Co. April 1902, order number 1779, one of five cars.
All wood construction, 10 sections, 1 stateroom, wide vestibules, length over sills 64'-9"
Retired, car dismantled, body sold for $150 to C.E. Gunsar, Mackinaw City, MI 4-28-36
Data from Ray Buhrmaster

The difference length could be that they are measuring over the ends of the vestibules rather than the sills. Someone from the CCAC contacted me a while back about this car and I gave them this info, also invited them to join this forum, but I never heard back from them. Guess the correction didn't make it to their webmaster, either.

How many other ca. 1900 10-1 sleepers are preserved?

There was a tourist rr there -- on the Leelanau Pennisula -- it was land locked and it only lasted a year or two and the tracks been pulled to make a bike/hiking trail.

While Traverse City is a tourist destination, I don't think it's a good location for a tourist railroad because on a nice day (in season) people want to be on the beach or golf course and not on a train and they don't want to be on a train if the weather's lousy.

There have been a few excursions on the TSBY line to Traverse and there was a dinner train there, but I don't know if it will operate in 2006.

Traverse City also has a small zoo, with a train pulled by a small steam engine, but it may be closed in a year or too.

Bob H

This could very well fill the missing link in preservation, as I am not aware of any other surviving wood sleeping cars in any state of completeness. While the appointments of Pullman Palace Cars (and other contemporary sleepers) remain widely famous - this era of car construction can only be interpreted through a few remaining private cars.

I really hope that they realize the significance of what they have and are planning the restoration accordingly.

Tom Cornillie

Isn't there a 1890s vintage 12-1 at Mid Continent? Possibly from the Rock Island's 1948 Chicago RR Fair exhibit train? I recall seeing somthing like that at N. Freedom in 1993.

I don't see a car fitting this description on the Mid Continent's roster - but would be happy to be proven wrong:

http://midcontinent.org/collectn/woodpas_.html

As I understand there was a CRI&P used in the 1948 railfair at the now defunct Kettle Moraine railroad at North Lake, WI. I have heard reports that this car is now part of an outdoor display at a construction firm. However, I do not have any information on the car's configuration or history.

Tom Cornillie

The Rock Island car was a coach, and it is gone from Mid-Continent. However, at Mid-Continent is Soo Line #1210, the "Rhinelander", built by Barney & Smith in 1902. It's a 12-1 sleeper, however, about half of the interior is missing. The private owners of this car are building staterooms in the other half.
http://www.mcrwy.com/collectn/woodpas/soo1210.html

Just as a side note, a sister car to the "Rhinelander" exists, however most of it's interior is long gone. See this link for info on the "Glen Flora" from an old RyPN Brief:
http://www.rypn.org/boyd/Silver%20Coach/Silver%20Coach.html

And the sleeper in question isn't a "Pullman Palace Car" because it was built by Barney & Smith and operated by the railroad, not Pullman. Never the less, it appears to be in rather original configuration, since the DSS&A wasn't big on plating over upper sash. Unfortunately, we don't really know what is left of the interior after seventy years of residential use; the description from the CCAC web side mentions that the stateroom is missing.

Also of note, the CCAC web site mentions that the car is now in St. Johns, MI, and the original article states that CCAC was dropped from the lawsuit because they moved their car, so it appears it is out of danger, at least for the moment. I just wish the person who contacted me would have taken my suggestion and joined this forum.

Boyd,

Thanks to the link to the Glen Flora. The food is pretty good, too. It may not be entirely evident from the photos, but the entire stateroom is intact and used as a private dining booth. The patented "deck-dome" is also intact at that end of the car.

While the Rhinelander, Glen Flora (both M.St.P.& S.Ste.M. cars) and the Sault Ste. Marie (DSS&A) were built by the same builder in the same year, they are different cars. The two Soo Line 12-1's had arched upper sash and what I believe is considered "Empire" styling inside, while the DSS&A car in St. Johns appears to be an older design, with rectangular upper sash.

Let's hope they can at least stabilize it.

I suspect the DSS&A sleeper (I almost said "Pullman" out of reflex) must be the one I saw in Alanson, Michigan, about 10 years ago. It was on cribbing, the trucks having long vanished. It looked remarkably sound from the outside, and I was told the interior was there. I recall this as a 10-1, although the window pattern suggests 12 sections, but that could be the drawing or stateroom.

The St. Johns GTW depot was the winner of a very large state arts and museums handout a few years ago, which restored this building on the abandoned Durand-Muskgon line. Maybe there's enough money left from that deal to preserve this significant passenger car. I must try to stop by there to see if this car has made its way south. I hope I don't see a pile of berth hardware and partitions thrown out the end.

If these guys are serious about restoring this car, they could use a set of six-wheel trucks from one of the various heavyweights that other threads have reported about to be scrapped. Wood trucks are of course called for, but steel ones could substitute. The ex-Ontario Rail CPR cars might even have wooden trucks that might almost be correct.

I have no idea how this car came to survive, but you never know what might be in the Upper Peninsula backwoods. Or what will show up in Alanson, Michigan, eh?