Railway Preservation News
https://www.rypn.org/forums/

URHS of New Jersey offering part of collection
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19931		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  steamtown observer [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  URHS of New Jersey offering part of collection
After the recent thread about equipment owned by groups and unable to be restored, this notice was posted at the URHS website:

Quote:
New Jersey Transportation Heritage Center Railroad Rolling Stock Collection

As most know, the transportation heritage center will not be located in Phillipsburg for reasons already published in "Transport Heritage" and enumerated at the "Friends of The New Jersey Transportation Heritage Center" website. Those reasons will not be listed here.

The United Railroad Historical Society exists to collect and restore railroad rolling stock for a future railroad or transportation museum within New Jersey. Over the years the URHS has collected almost 90 items in anticipation of having sufficient equipment on hand to be displayed or to provide parts for those items being restored for display or operation. The effort to acquire equipment, begun in 1987, was been making progress, albeit, slowly.

The State of New Jersey was not willing to provide the necessary funds for the museum. Our efforts were then redirected toward obtaining help from private sources. However, Governor James McGreevey's administration stalled a bill in the New Jersey legislature that would have allowed the creation of a foundation to be used as a tool for gathering donations from private businesses. Assemblyman Alex DeCroce once again supported the venture, but was unable to proceed given the political climate.

Now, after nineteen years we see most of the equipment that was saved from the scrap yard, turning into scrap. It is being subjected to weather and vandalism. The liability resulting from owning this equipment, stored all over New Jersey, is astronomical - insurance premiums are extremely expensive and steadily increasing. In addition, the URHS is responsible for relocating or scrapping nonessential equipment. This, too, is expense - fifteen years ago a scrapper would pay for an item to be scrapped. Today, the owner pays the scrapper.

While the "Friends of The New Jersey Transportation Heritage Center" searches for a new heritage center site, the URHS has determined it needs to divest itself of duplicative rolling stock. This includes, but is not limited to, items seriously deteriorated or items having no hope of being operated in the future. When the rolling stock collection is pared down, it might be possible to keep it in one or two locations - thus saving expenses. Today, there are four areas serving as storage facilities.

Below is a list of rolling stock equipment being offered to interested parties for restoration or for other use. These items are located on the properties of others and would need to be relocated by flatcar or truck.

* NYS&W 206 Diesel Switcher Loco - promised to Maywood, NJ Station
* PRR 4879 GG-1 Loco
* DL&W 2200 MU low roof coach
* DL&W 2453 MU Parlor
* DL&W 2454 MU Parlor
* PC 18303 Transfer Caboose
* PRR 427
* PRR 437
* PRR 453 - three MU MP-54 coaches
* ERIE 2620 Coach-Stillwell
* PRR 1734 Coach-P-70
* URHS 448 (ex US Navy 89448, US Army hospital car) - cafeteria car
* URHS 492 (ex-US Navy 89492, US Army hospital car)

So much of New Jersey's transportation history has been saved. We hope to continue what was started - having a first rate heritage center in the State of New Jersey. Thank you for your continued support.


I assume you can contact them via the website http://www.urhs.org
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Some notes on the list - some significant
Hi,

A note on a few of the items the URHS is disposing of.

The two DL&W electric MU parlor cars are two out of a total of three. The third left the URHS collection to be turned into a "fish" car museum in the Catskills. Therefore, these two are the only DL&W MU parlors left somewhat intact.

The PRR 1734 is not a regular P-70. It served as the Jersey Coast Commuter Club parlor car on the New York & Long Branch up until the retirement of the GG-1's in 1983. It is siginificant on many counts. It was retired direct from daily operations into Penn Station.

The GG-1 on the list, #4879, was the last in revenue service and ran with #1734.

The URHS roster holds many pieces, a good number of which have little realtion to the "classic" era of railroading in NJ and it might behoove groups outside the area to reach out.

What pieces might these be?

NYC E-8's, NYC lounge cars and a NYC parlor car, C&NW F-7's (4 at least), GN and UP coaches, B&M flat car and perhaps others.

I have no idea if the URHS will part with these, but it cannot hurt to ask.

Rob
Author:  Tom Cornillie [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some notes on the list - some significant
The 1734 may also be the only P-70 its sealed windows installed when it was air conditioned and is among the most complete P-70 surviving anywhere.

Also, the 3 MP-54's mentioned may be the last complete cars of this class surviving - the first successful AC MU cars in North America (the world?).

Does anybody have information on the nee-US Army Hospital Cars, or the PC 18303 - I have never seen these on a URHS roster before.

Likewise, does anybody have recent photos of the other pieces of equipment - the URHS has removed most of these items from their online roster and few photos exist elsewhere.

Tom Cornillie
Author:  Frank Hicks [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some notes on the list - some significant
Tom Cornillie wrote:
Also, the 3 MP-54's mentioned may be the last complete cars of this class surviving - the first successful AC MU cars in North America (the world?).


URHS is, however, retaining a fourth MP54 numbered 413 which they have painted in PRR Tuscan Red. I would assume that this car is also complete.

Tom Cornillie wrote:
Likewise, does anybody have recent photos of the other pieces of equipment - the URHS has removed most of these items from their online roster and few photos exist elsewhere.


Below is a link to the Preserved Electric Railway Cars database page for URHS, which includes links to photos of most of the traction equipment in question (some of the links are bad since URHS took the photos off their website).

http://www.bera.org/cgi-bin/pnaerc-query.pl?sel_curown=United+Railroad+Historical+Society&match_target=&Tech=Yes&pagelen=200
Author:  junior [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: URHS of New Jersey offering part of collection
I never realized how much equipment they actually had....I guess because as it states, the stuff is so spread out....

If they could find a nice brach to run regular excursions on, they have some awesome potential in terms of recreating many of the different types of Passenger trains that were operated in the Tri State area.

Really is a shame they lost out on getting a set museum location.

Any idea what the asking price is for the various equipment?
Author:  KevinO [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: URHS of New Jersey offering part of collection
Quote:
So much of New Jersey's transportation history has been saved. We hope to continue what was started - having a first rate heritage center in the State of New Jersey. Thank you for your continued support.


What is truly sad about that comment is the fact that what they are looking to get rid of should be part of the core collection. Each one of these pieces have more to do with the state than just about every piece that has been restored with the exception of the two CNJ GP7s and the PRR GP9.

The PRR P70 1734 probably has more NJ history than any other piece in the collection. It served the better part of half of the 20th century hauling subscription commuters on the New York & Long Branch.

Oh well, I guess its just our typical NJ politics at work again.

Kevin
Author:  co614 [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: URHS of New Jersey offering part of collection
I believe that the URHS move to find suitable new homes for some of their collection is a constructive step in the right direction. From my years of involvement as a member of the State Transportation Museum Commission(1995-99) and as a life long New Jerseyan I can tell you that the chances now of finding a new site that a solid majority can get behind AND getting State funding in the tens of millions to build it are ZERO!
As previously stated it's a shame that we couldn't get majority backing for the Liberty State Park site in 1995 (with its unique location,history and Corp. sponsorship potential) vs. remote and down troden Phillipsburg-but that's water under the bridge and we can't go back.
I would encourage the URHS to continue and expand their efforts to find good "homes" for the rest of the "collection" ASAP as the years go by quickly and the condition of the equipment will only get worse!
Ross Rowland
Author:  rev66vette [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: URHS of New Jersey offering part of collection
"The barn door is open, and hence goes the horse", is respective of the status of equipment listed by the URHS that is currently "offered" with anyone with unlimited cash or access to a company comparable to J. Super. This equipment was offered to the "member" URHS groups some time ago, and now is being offered to anyone who may desire it. But as with anything, there are some inherent problems.

Seems that the listed equipment is that of which is stored on the two PSE&G properties in Gilbert and Richfield, New Jersey. Finding good homes for this will be difficult at best. I can personally relate to the equipment at Richfield which consists of the NYSW #206, several cabooses and Lackawanna Parlor MU cars.

The switch to the yard in the plant itself has been severed and the cars are currently " land-locked", so to speak. I guess that is the reason they note that the pieces would have to be trucked out. I'd like to be there when they move the GG-1 that way!

However, that's not all of the story. The tracks within the plant are also in terrible condition. I was part of an effort by the Susquehanna Historical guys to get some of the items in a proper order to get them out. This was at least five years ago. They were allowed access to the premises and brought along two mechanics and got the 60 ton GE swicther there in service to allow them to make the moves in question. This took several weekends in itself. Finally on one weekend, they gingerly retrieved the cars that we could safely reach. They also moved one MU car to the somewhat active siding along the plant. This was for a contractor to remove by flat-bed to be untilmately delivered to upstate New York for the O&W group to be restored as a "trout car". ( This is yet another story in itself.)

I recall the result of this endeavor as resulting in: 4 bee stings, two cases of poison ivy, many thorny plants to contend with, and an injured snapping turtle we encountered.

The remaining equipment, which I recall as being the GG-1, and E-8, and several cabooses, were basically marooned due to the condition of the ties and switches leading to their location. There were at least three switches and the leads to them that required total rebuilding.

The URHS had on several occasions tried to get various contractors including track personnel from local Railroads independently, to repair these items. This however, was never accomplished.

The the meantime, the generating plant itself, underwent a total rebuild. New cooling turbines were erected, ( some of them even arriving by rail). During the course of this construction, the contractors dropped huge I-beams acrosss the remaining tracks, including those of where the switcher is located, damaging the rail and roadbed. Also "perk" type wells were dug adjacent to the roadbed, which filled with excess run-off water, causing a mess. The end result now being that the switcher, the only mode left to move anything, now being totally isolated from the rest of the equipment.

I've been told that a local RR station Historical group has made overtures to retrieve the S-2 switcher # 206 and display it near their station. This group has been very resourceful lately in moving a caboose, so I suspect they may be able to pull this off. The unit itself has had several of it's power assemblies and other engine components removed during it's short stay at Naporano before being rescued by another group in the 80's. Therefore, it is doubtful it will ever run. In a recent photo I observed the cab window open along with the journal boxes on one of it's trucks.

In the meantime, the items in question continue to waste away, and the quest to find new homes appears doubtful at best.

Alas, sad as usual in New Jersey.
Author:  NH0401 [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some notes on the list - some significant
It seems odd that URHS is retaining equipment like ex-C&NW F units and NYC long haul passenger stock that have absolutely NO relationship to NJ railroading.

As for finding a new site in Northern NJ-forget it. Land values and the NIMBY factor would work against that type of solution.

Dave
Author:  rev66vette [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some notes on the list - some significant
It shouldn't seem odd about the stuff they have actively running, especially if you keep up with history or keep align to modern equipment. Those ex-CNW units became one of the brighter spots in the URHS chapter of actively running equipment. Metro-North came to them and wanted to lease them and agreed to do a complete rebuild, including upgrading the HEP units. After the lease they were returned and I believe they even painted them. Today most RR's won't even give a second thought about having equipment not compatible with HEP. Don't even think about approaching them with anything else. they'll show you the door. The F-units although not totally indicative to NJ although they did run on NJT/EL for a while did a lot to get some trips going. It was one of the few win-win deals that the URHS guys made. Metro-North even had mechanics coming to NJ to do follow-up work on them when they were stored on the Morristown & Erie. Those units are now stored on the Southern RR of NJ and still are in operating condition.

Significant or not, better that than nothing at all.
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some notes on the list - some significant
Dave,

The URHS has a view on these topics, and they certainly have been hased out. I think what is important to note is that the URHS is now seeking good homes from part of the collection.

This is a major development and quite positive given what has happened. It also puts a "money where your mouth is" scenario to critics. The time to step up, if you can, is now.

If I had the means, I'd secure #1734 myself. At the very least, if there are organizations willing to preserve her and the other items, it would be a worthwhile fundrasiing campaign.

RRMofPA? Altoona? #1734 is a rare brid.

Rob




NH0401 wrote:
It seems odd that URHS is retaining equipment like ex-C&NW F units and NYC long haul passenger stock that have absolutely NO relationship to NJ railroading.

As for finding a new site in Northern NJ-forget it. Land values and the NIMBY factor would work against that type of solution.

Dave
Author:  NH0401 [ Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some notes on the list - some significant
So, this disposition is a matter of WHERE the equipment is located. I am familiar with the situation at the PSE&G plant in Ridgefield Park. Let it be mentioned that PSE&G is up for sale-which may eliminate the local senior management that permitted this use in the first place.

A wise man came up with a possible solution for moving something as large as an E8 (or perhaps a P70) as follows:

Strip the mechanical equipment out from the piece and cut the frame in half-which would enable the various pieces and assemblies to be trucked out. A code-certified structural welder could 'easily' put the pieces back together again.

The S-2 could be dismantled and trucked out.

'Allz is takes is $$$$'

Dave
Author:  co614 [ Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some notes on the list - some significant
Seems to me that the reason there is some urgency in finding willing takers for this equipment is that several of the sites are being actively marketed and when sold there's a high probability that the new owner is going to do a site clean-up and not want a bunch of derelict rr stuff on his property. If that happens there's a strong chance that the stuff will be cut up "where is-as is", thus it behooves all concerned to make finding new homes a high priority.
Ross Rowland
Author:  Bobharbison [ Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some notes on the list - some significant
> Strip the mechanical equipment out from the piece
> and cut the frame in half

Here's another option. Hire a house moving company to transport it to the nearest railhead. Granted, it wouldn't be cheap, but neither would welding the frame back together...
Author:  Tom Cornillie [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some notes on the list - some significant
Quote:
A wise man came up with a possible solution for moving something as large as an E8 (or perhaps a P70) as follows:

Strip the mechanical equipment out from the piece and cut the frame in half-which would enable the various pieces and assemblies to be trucked out. A code-certified structural welder could 'easily' put the pieces back together again.


Is this a joke? With all of the schemes that I have come across in the name of 'preservation' I have trouble telling what is meant in jest.

Tom Cornillie
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/