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| Pullmans on museum trains? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19951 |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Pullmans on museum trains? |
There was a recent thread on RyPN entitled "Cars in Need of Assistance." During that discussion, Sleeping Cars were mentioned and the fact that they weren't on museum passenger trains. l asked if there were any examples of Sleeping Cars being used on trains where the consists were short and a couple of examples were given. I recently read a story in a back issue of TRAINS Magazine about a train on the old Gulf, Mobile & Northern. Back in the mid-1920's, the overnight train consisted of a baggage-mail car and two open-platform wooden coaches. A new General Passenger Agent was appointed and he found three surplus wooden Sleeping Cars on the Central of Georgia Railroad and after being refurbished in the GM&N's shop (one drawing room was converted into a small buffet area), they were added to the train. Open platform coaches AND a Sleeping Car, a perfect prototype to add that currently unused Pullman onto the museum passenger train! The original GM&N train ran from Mobile, Alabama to Jackson, Tennessee. Later the railroad extended their line into the state capital of Jackson, Mississippi and sleeping car service was extended to that location. The GM&N found another wooden ex-CofG sleeper but had to search out west before finding a fifth wood sleeper from the Northern Pacific. Eventually the wood baggage-mail and the wooden open end coaches were replaced by steel cars but the wooden Sleepers remained in service until 1935. Les |
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| Author: | Tom Cornillie [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pullmans on museum trains? |
The challenge in operating Pullmans in museum service, and long distance equipment generally, is that this type of equipment tends to be more complicated mechanically and have interiors that are more prone to wear and tear. As such, operating cars in musuem service runs the risk of consuming historic fabric (which in this case may literally be fabric) faster than with former commuter service cars - and is much more difficult (if not impossible) to repair or replace with in-kind materials. It also raises the question to how useful it is instructionally to have a Pullman in a musuem train vs. a non-operating static exhibit. Simply giving visitors a ride on such a car (the "here it is - get it" approach) does very little to teach why Pullman service was important. The main technological and social significance of Pullman service is best taught with an interpretive presentation performed while the car is standing still. Tom Cornillie |
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| Author: | eldiner [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pullmans on museum trains? |
I think a post-War lightweight sleeper would not be a bad addition to a museum train. The chairs in a bedroom are quite comfortable and can be sold as "first class". It appears to me that every tourist train/museum that offers some kind of first class does well with it - people will pay for an upgraded ride. And this is still telling history. A lot of business people did their work during the day in a Pullman bedroom. I do agree that showing how a bed is made up is probably better done in a static situation - unless you have passengers who want to pay for taking a nap! |
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| Author: | scrmcurator [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pullmans on museum trains? |
A couple volunteers have taken on a cleanup of SCRM's Pullman "Bizet," later SOU 2519. There has been some talk of converting the brakes over to something more modern and actually running the car as another first-class car. There's a slight chance this could happen with a private donation, but I'm not holding my breath. That's about the only way I'd do it -- I wouldn't spend scarce Museum resources on the car right now, even though I think running it would be a great idea. There's some pretty conclusive evidence that the car was used as a Jim Crow coach before it was retired, so we could use it to tell that story with a little more research. As for naps -- once we get the whole railroad rebuilt that might be feasible! Eleven miles each way at an average of 10 mph is going to be a pretty long trip. I've napped (off-duty, of course) in cabooses a couple times during special movements over our line. Very pleasant! |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pullmans on museum trains vs. stand still exhibits? |
Tom: I agree that it would be better to have an interpretive presentation of the Pullman "experience" while a car is sitting still, but I wonder how many museums really do that. I know that Illinois Railway Museum has walkways alongside of Pullman cars that visitors can look in to, but I don't ever recall anyone giving a presentation to visitors on what they were seeing. Signs explaining things are okay IF they are read. In the meantime, from what I have seen, most Pullman cars just sit at museums unused. My suggestion was to use at least one of these cars. Certainly there would be some extra wear, especially to fabrics, and yes, things might have to be replaced sooner. But having a car just sit, buttoned up, usually outside, is not good either. A sleeper with sections, was used during the day after its upper and lower berths were put up and converted to seats. By having one section set up, it could be explained to riders how this was done. This could also be done with roomettes. And if on an operating train, the museum member assigned to the car, would be right there to provide the explanation. This also brings up the fact that it could be explained that nearly all Pullman Porters in the past were black men and the establishment of the Union of these men was the first major Union in this country. Maybe though there ARE regular presentations of the Pullman experience currently ongoing at museums using cars that are standing still. If so, perhaps those museums that are doing so, will advise us of that fact. Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana) |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pullmans on museum trains? |
Why convert the brakes? Pittsburgh Air Brake will service U-12 valves. Converting the brakes will cost time and effort. |
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| Author: | Dave Sutter [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pullmans on museum trains? |
Why not use the pullmans for a museum Bed & Breakfast? Have an evening dinner train, sleep on the train and then breakfast before disembarking? |
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| Author: | wesp [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pullmans on museum trains vs. stand still exhibits? |
I agree with Les. When my wife and I took a recent rip on Amtrak, I made a point to videotape our cabin attendant as she made up the deluxe bedroom for the night. Our adult children were fascinated with the process as it was demonstrated on the tape. This activity could be easily shared on a stationary car. Or better yet, would it be possible to remove a bedroom from an otherwise derelict car and have a stand alone exhibit that allows the room to be made up and reset by a docent? Wesley |
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| Author: | Ted Miles [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pullmans on museum trains? |
The Western Railway Museum is not all Traction. Many of our members are experienced railroad travelers. The Pullman Circumnavigator Club is used for special events; usually as part of a fund raising or celebration event. The members have collested a complete range of original and replica Pullman table settings for this Pullman/Buffet/Observation. We also have light snacks served on our Salt Lake and Utah electric parlor car. But a railroad trained Chief doing his stuff in that tiny Pullman galley is quite an experience. I have seen and tasted the results and they are great! The Pullman dishes came from the Washington,DC NRHS chapter I think. And there are Santa Fe dishes available from the Pacific Coast Chapter, NRHS. |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pullmans on museum trains? |
Quote: The Pullman dishes came from the Washington,DC NRHS chapter I think.
And there are Santa Fe dishes available from the Pacific Coast Chapter, NRHS. The Calfironia State Railroad Museum Foundation has reproductions of two different styles of Santa Fe china. The"Minbreño" was used exclusively on the Super Chief. The "California Poppy" was used from 1892 through to 1971. |
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| Author: | eldiner [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pullmans on museum trains? |
The April issue of Trains magazine is more or less dedicated to railroads and food. The "Products" section on page 96 lists the reproductions for Santa Fe Mimbreno and California Poppy, C&O Chessie, Great Northern Glory of the West and Mountains & Flowers, Southern Peach Blossom, Erie Starrucca and Lackawanna Phoebe Snow and St. Albans. |
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| Author: | Trolleyguy [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pullmans on museum trains vs. stand still exhibits? |
The California Railroad Museum in Sacramento has such an exhibit. Canadian National 1683, the St. Hyacinthe, a 10 section, 1 drawing room, and 1 compartment car has been restored to its 50's appearance. A docent walks you through the car and explains how the berths are made up, while the car gently rocks as if running through the night. A very interesting and interpretive experience. Here's the link that explains about it. http://www.csrmf.org/doc.asp?ID=187 |
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| Author: | scrmcurator [ Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pullmans on museum trains? |
Brian Norden wrote: Why convert the brakes? Pittsburgh Air Brake will service U-12 valves.
Converting the brakes will cost time and effort. In a word, cost. The time and effort spent up front leads to SUBSTANTIAL savings down the road. UC's are only good for 18 months. D-22s are good for 24 months, and AB-type valves are good for 24 YEARS. Plus our local WABCO shop can do the ABs, which is quite a bit cheaper. |
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| Author: | Al Stangenberger [ Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pullmans on museum trains? |
Ted Miles wrote: The Pullman Circumnavigator Club is used for special events; usually as part of a fund raising or celebration event. A clarification - special events with our two heavyweights (Circumnavigators Club and WP observation lounge 653 (used as Maude's house in the movie Harold and Maude) are held with the train parked in the yard. We never run them in train service. |
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