The URHS discussion string touched on an interesting topic before it was locked, the feasibility of cutting up a diesel locomotive that has issues that would make it economically prohibitive to move on its own wheels, in order to reduce it to sections that are small enough to transport on flatcars or possibly even by highway, for reassembly at another site.

While it is not a situation that comes up very often, it is indeed possible and reasonably practical to do this, particularly in the case where the eventual use will be a non-operating display. Similar "surgical" techniques are used on some occasions by locomotive rebuilders to stretch a unit for installation of HEP equipment. It is much easier to perform this kind of surgery on a "covered wagon" than on a modern road locomotive because the access for cutting is better. If the location of the cuts is planned carefully in advance, the reassembly welding and any needed gussets or stiffeners can be effectively hidden by replacement of the carbody battens and side panels.

The prime example of a situation where this might have been employed was the New Haven PP716 (the last DL109) that was mentioned in the URHS discussion string. Unfortunately nobody who was interested in the unit in 1969 had the means to stop the scrapping order or the financial resources to pursue the disassembly and transportation of the unit.

The scrapping technique that was actually employed on PP716 was to cut the body down the centerline of the roof, then cut and peel the carbody in sections so that it fell on both sides of the unit. The amount of time and effort that went into scrapping it this way was probably about equal to what would have been required to cut it neatly into several preplanned sections for transportation to another location.

First I apologize for the relapse in which I posted "Richfield" Park in lieu of it's proper name. ( Ridgefield) An area I have frequented for over 30 years.

The common sense approach to ANY movement of this equipment is by rail. The initial connection into the yard proper would have to be restored, as would the previously mentioned three or four switches and leads to the equipment in question. This is far more within the realm of possibility than the other suggestions listed previously. A competent track gang can accomplish this with the proper materials. Once again, money comes into the equation.

As I mentioned in my prior posts, this land has been drastically altered within the past four or five years, with the complete rebuilding of the facility. Driving any vehicle into the property has always been difficult at best. Regular passenger style vehicles cannot get to where the equipment is stored. There is no road or path. In the past, we parked in an area adjacent to the yard along a fence that was opened by PSE&G personnel for us. This plant has heavy security and is gated. One has to contact them via phone at the gate to gain access. Once someone opened that gate for us, we had to trudge our equipment, usually by hand to the area where the railroad equipment is stored. Self-generated equipment is a must, there is no electric or utilties anywhere. I can't see how any equipment of substantial size can make this venture into the premises. There would have to be a lot of "altering" as there are new power lines, poles, and equipment about. As for the remark about " J Supor" well I have to say that Mr Supor has been extremely gracious in the past in the movement of many pieces for many groups throughout the state, but it appears that this phase of generosity is at an end.

There are about 15 pieces to be removed, and via rail would be the most practical, although would probably take an act of congress to complete. The CSX "river-line" ex- NYC "West shore" line is adjacent, and the switch lead once entering the property comes from there, although is now disconnected. Approximately an eighth of a mile north there is a switch from the river-line to the NYS&W railroad. As I have previously noted, it would be extremely difficult to perform such a move and CSX's reluctance would be understandable, but more difficult moves have been performed over mush more utilized main-lines for moves of this nature.

It would take much diplomacy, money, schmoozing, or whatever to accomplish this. I always thought that if the plant itself ever insisted that the equipment be moved, would provide an impetus for some kind of political intervention which perhaps could open the door.

Currently the Susquehanna Historical Society through an adjunct Railroad Station group, is making overtures to move the Alco S-2 switcher. This was placed in a strategic location by the NYS&W people several years ago. It is the first piece in-line with the switch lead to the property. These people have already moved a caboose to the station and seem to have the connections to make this work. This perhaps could be a start to continue an effort to resue the other equipment, but I don't ever think anything will change. Whether we like it or not, this situation is a failure of a project that to many seemed unrealistic in the beginning and has led to this equipment to it's current situation. It's even more of a shame that perhaps the most valuable piece, the GE 65 ton plant switcher, is even more isolated.

One of the many stories that has yet to have an ending.

Would all the switches need to be fixed? At least with Ridgefield Park could one lead be rebuilt and placed to one track then cut and moved to the other tracks one at a time? May need a bulldozer to do it, but why restore three switches if the yard will most likely be removed anyway?

I understand everyone's feelings about preservation too, but at least with the GG1 the guts could be removed from it since there is no real hope of ever fully restoring any of those units to service. There are plenty of other GG1s with their insides intact to provide historic reference. This should drastically reduce the weight making it easier to relocate.

Those cars could also be placed on flatcars and pulled out. There are no low clearances I can think off off hand on CSX between the yard and the NYS&W (a safe haven?) Could they be stored someplace on the NYS&W prior to final disposition?

Re: Ridgefield Park PSE&G yard

All the tracks leading to the "marooned" equipment in question, ( The GG-1, E-8, cabooses, etc) would have to be safety tied, switches included. There is no way any equipment using rail can safely reach these items.

The 206 on the other hand is on a section of that siding that had been re-done within the past 10 years or so. Once the connection outside the gate has been re-established, there should be no problem reaching those items. It was at least five years ago that we attempted to get all the stuff together, but even with that GE switcher, we wouldn't take the chance to get into where those other pieces are. Hence, there are two areas where the stuff is stored, one "approachable", and one not.

I agree that the NYS&W, only a stones-throw away, could be considered a "safety-haven". Unfortunately, the remaining section of CSX could be considered as the "De-militarized zone".

When I read this first, I was confused until I found the locked string. Now it makes sense.

So I'll ask, how much room (how many acres) does one need to move the museum? How much land was there in Phillipsburg?

Later!
Mr. Ed

You don't have to restore the switches if the track is going to be demolished. You remove them, put in a regular section of panel track, get the cars off that lead, then shift the panel to the other track, do the same etc.

Also, you can move stuff over lousy track by very slowly moving it with a dozer or loader and watching the track carefully. What's the worst that can happen? You derail at 1 mph. At that speed, it should only be one set of wheels, and you can easily re-rail and try again.

There are lots of track folks out there who could easily make this work.

The original P'burg site was in the range of 45-50 acres. The most recent iteration is FIVE acres. Why ?

For those who don't know, property vaues in many parts of Northern NJ have been on a steady course upward. Not hard to fathom that the town fathers would rather add 45 acres of rateables to the tax rolls as opposed to a museum site that would not generate any direct income.

DPK

You could use gauge rods instead of ties. Ordered some today @ 28.00 ea. Use them on the track needed, losen use on next track. When done sell them to a local railroad, Track company,etc. at half price. Lot easier to handle than ties and very little digging. move slow and you should be fine.

Someone in an earlier thread worried that the specialized trucks to move some of the collection don't exist nearby. This is quite true, but also a good thing to keep the price down. It's a lot cheaper to move the trucks long distances from other parts of the world as ordinary freight than to pay what would have to be charged if a local company had all of the specialized trucks necessary and had to collect enough to make a profit while his trucks sit idle most of the time because everybody else has some. High capacity flatcars are handled the same way.

Thanks NH0401. I had asked before without a response. With the proximity of NY City to north Jersey, it is easy to see why property is so expensive.

And I understand the rateables side of the coin. We lost the first round to Wawa on getting the old PRR rail yard rezoned for gas pumps because the township saw rateables that we as a non-profit do not pay. But what the township and Wawa missed is that we will draw tourists and they will spend money at the current Wawa location across the street and other businesses in the area. The only people currently using the Wawa are locals on their way to and from work. That according to a Wawa market study.

later!
Mr. Ed

Think I'll bow out on this thread after this response.

To answer a few suggestions from recent threads: The gauge bar repair has already been attempted without much success. The switch locations are not on stable or level ground. These are tracks that haven't been used in over 30 years.

The track is not to be demolished as far as I know. That would be up to the Generating plant. There is still a valuable GE 65 ton switcher marooned at the other end.

As previously mentioned, there are not many ways to reach this equipment. And derailing at any speed is counter-productive due to the fact that the area is quite remote. We have derailed in the past, and being that this is a weekend venture for most of us, and an adjunct of our regular societie(s) this derailment/re-railment time was felt to be extremely counter-productive.

I agree, that due to the inherent logistics, the volunteer aspect of this situation is a moot point, and if anything is ever going to be accomplished, it will have to be by the experts. Of course, that's where the cost will also be a factor.

I could tell about 10 more stories or relevant facts with the numerous incursions to this site, but I don't thik it will rectify the situation of the sorry state of affairs of this equipment.

If anything develops in the future, I will report same to this forum.

I thank everyone for their thoughts.