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| CPR donates E&N to Vancouver Island https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20019 |
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| Author: | bobyar2001 [ Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | CPR donates E&N to Vancouver Island |
See this article: http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolo ... 09&k=51690 |
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| Author: | co614 [ Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CPR donates E&N to Vancouver Island |
This is terrific news for the rail preservation community as included in this is the historic and valuable Victoria roundhouse/turntable and yard. There's no doubt in my mind that the Southern end (Victoria-Nanaimo) has huge tourism/commuter potential especially if the City of Victoria is a proactive player. Our attempts with the Pacific Wilderness venture(1999-2001) in large part failed due to the high insurance requirements and steep rents mandated by landlord CPR. The 20 mile run out of Victoria to the top of the grade(about 1.2%) in part goes thru a beautiful Provincial park, and offers some spectacular views down into the Pacific Ocean and the surrounding old growth forest. There's existing R.O.W. to relay the old wye at the top and the Victoria roundhouse would make an ideal HQ for a steam operation. If the city of Victoria were a proactive partner and the operation included steam there's little question it could attract enough of Victorias 3 million annual tourists to be viable. That assumes of course that the new owners demands were more reasonable than CPR's. I hope it all comes together as it has the physical/geographic assets to be one of the premier North American operations. Ross Rowland |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Hmmm, maybe they need steam power............. |
[jest] So, Brother Rowland, would Vancouver Island/the E&N be a better route/line/home for a certain Eastern-born, now-Western-based 4-8-4 of your past acquaintance? [/jest] [ducks and runs from the wrath of Ye Moderators] Seriously, assuming (and that's a brash assumption) that British Columbia is a more hospitable host for an excursion operation, what would be the appropriate equipment? Small steam, big steam, diesels, RDCs, what? |
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| Author: | co614 [ Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hmmm, maybe they need steam power............. |
Brother Mitchell, The table in Victoria is an 80 footer so that limits the choice of power to that wheel base. I'd say the ideal engine(s) would be the CPR G-5 Pacifics from both an operational and historic perspective. The ruling grade is just slightly over 1% so they could readily handle a 10 car train over the road and easily maintain the max.track speed of 35mph. As to the relative suitability of attempting to operate regularly scheduled steam passenger service on a rr with a ruling grade of 3.5%, I'd say that it's only slightly more challenging(insane?) than inviting your recently divorced ex-wife to accompany you on your soon upcoming honeymoon trip with your new bride!! IMHO Ross Rowland |
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| Author: | John Bohon [ Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hmmm, maybe they need steam power............. |
I guess this all depends on the type of steam motive power you are running. Geared engines hardly notice 3.5 percent grades. In fact they do quite well on the 10 percent at Cass. Engines with 70 inch drivers are a different matter. John Bohon |
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| Author: | bobyar2001 [ Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | CPR 926 |
Somwhere, I think in the BC archives, I've seen a photo of this D10 4-6-0 in operation on the E&N. It's presently in the museum at Ottawa, in good cosmetic shape and inside last time I saw it. If I can find the link, I'll post it. |
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| Author: | co614 [ Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CPR 926 |
My comment was in answer to Brother Mitchells remarks regarding 2100's situation. Yes, geared locos are made for steep grades, but they're also painfully slow. The first 10 miles out of Victoria is typical suburban type scenery while the second 10 miles is beautiful. Therefore at 10mph with a geared loco. it wouldn't work in either a time sense nor in a product quality sense. Geared locos work great at Cass in part because you're almost immediately on pretty railroad and on your way up the mountain. Totally different in both Victoria and Tacoma. Ross Rowland |
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| Author: | Ted Miles [ Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CPR donates E&N to Vancouver Island |
bob, Thanks for that article. I rode that line a couple of years ago ; even after the Diesel Rail cars were supposed to be retired. I am glad they were late doing it! It's great that many more people will be able to use the trains; including the Native Americans who depend onn the passenger trains Ted Miles |
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| Author: | Dave [ Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CPR donates E&N to Vancouver Island |
I'm thinking doodlebugs to start, and in less touristy seasons, and a couple nice logging 2-8-2s that can run at 20-25 MPH and tread very lightly on the rail for high season steam trains. Wasn't there a sort of diesel repowered Shay geared monstrosity in a yard up there somewhere? Have hazy recollection. Beautiful logging musem at Duncan i thiink, too. dave |
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| Author: | bobyar2001 [ Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Here is the image: |
CPR 926 on the E&N: http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin ... _05632.gif They also used some of the little D4 4-6-0s, like the Link engine and the one at Delson, though I can't find evidence of either one being used there. http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin ... _05684.gif The E&N converted to oilburning early on, probably as a hedge against fire. Anyone interested in this project should join the Roundhouse Museum Project group here: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/R ... =111348323 The Victoria roundhouse is the best preserved and most intact of roundhouses in Canada, and as one who worships these temples of history, I believe it deserves to be developed as a genuine historic site, not just a place to put old trains from anywhere and everywhere. That means CPR equipment at least. As this is earthquake country, the roundhouse and shop buildings would probably need some kind of reinforcement, hopefully not too visually intrusive. |
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| Author: | co614 [ Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Here is the image: |
In my two years on the island I never saw the Shay monster Dave refers to and I doubt it was still anywhere on the Island. The Roundhouse will need to be retrofiited with bracing and other structural improvements in order to meet the current code but well worth the investment. I believe it is the sole remaining CPR complex with all the parts/pieces/buildings still extant as built?? In any event it's a beautiful layout and can make an outstanding combination historical display/working steam service facility in a town that already gets 3 million tourists/year. Hopefully the new owners will link up with a capable operator and facilitate that happening? Let's hope so. Ross Rowland |
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| Author: | tomgears [ Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What's next? |
Did I miss it in the discussion? So is there a tourist pike in the work now that the CP no longer owns the line? |
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| Author: | co614 [ Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's next? |
Tom, The point here is that the line has all the critially important ingredients( 3 miilion annual tourists, good scenery,reasonable distances,well established tourism industry, shop-turntable-yard etc. etc.) and could make an outstanding tourist rwy. opportunity IF the new owners are proactive partners(reasonable track usage charges, reasonable rent for the roundhouse/yard property,reasonable insurance requirements,etc.,etc.) vs. CPR whose charges/requirements were so high we couldn't make a go of it despite decent and growing ridership with the Pacific Wilderness operation. One would think they will be in that its a non-profit Foundation dedicated to maximizeing the rr's potential contribution to the Islands economy/future. The obvious downside is that it's a quasi-government organization representing multiple constituancies and more than likely will move with normal beauracratic inefficiency?? Hard to imagine though that it won't be a major improvement over CPR. Ross Rowland |
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| Author: | tomgears [ Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's next? |
As I understand it, they have is something that could have a big future but no operator or equipment? It would end up being a government owned infrastructure with a private operator that could either be for profit or not-for-profit. Is there a person or organization ready make a go of it? |
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| Author: | co614 [ Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's next? |
There's always capable folks ready to make a go of it IF the basic tenants make business sense. I would hope that the new owners would put out an RFP-get it well circulated throughout the industry(TRAIN?) and see what they get back. It all depends on how they set the ground rules. As tourism is the #1 industry on the Island it would seem a natural for them to do all possible to get a good operation under way ASAP?? We'll see what happens. Ross Rowland |
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