Hello all,

For those of you who are experienced in inspecting steam locomotives, how would you appraise the wear in the parts visisble in this photo. The locomotive in question is NKP 2-8-4 624 at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania.

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=136026

Tom Cornillie

first thing I'd want to do is to grab those rods and see how much slop is in them, but I can't shake pixels.

Say, when a locomotive is stored dead like that, what is keeping the brake shoes clamped tight on the drivers?

Spring hangers look pretty good. Leaf spring is shot. Brake shoes are questionable. Presence of rust MAY indicate loose tire on main driver. Binder may require attention (hard to judge scale in the picture). Main and eccentric crank pins and gun irons may require attention as there is no evidence of lubrication. Brake hanger on L2 driver appears to require bushing for brake beam and brake head pin (may be distortion in picture)
-Chris Zahrt

One more thing. Assuming the track is level, the spring rigging is going to require some attention as the equalizer isn't level.

What REALLY boggles the mind is that somehow the numbers "757" have managed to wear/weather down to "624". That, or somehow, somewhere, when I wasn't looking, the RR Museum of Pa. traded 2-8-2 624 in Hammond, Indiana for 2-8-4 757. Or maybe someone converted the spare numerals into a trailing axle........ or, wait, are we looking for a missing axle that was there under the 757? Now I'm all confused......

Man, it has been a while since I've been up there, hasn't it? <;-)

One item Mr. Zahrt forgot to mention is that of the missing cap/broken stud in the eccentric crank.
Now, something to keep in mind is that regardless of how much "slop" is in the rods, spring rigging or brake rigging(visible or internal), chances are that all pins and bushings will require replacement...and on the wheels, pins quartered and bushings replaced. At this point the chances of finding a park/museum loki in a condition that would not require such is slim to none. And with that in mind, it is most safe to make such assumptions from this sort of photo.

.

I've never been known not to be critical, but I'm not seeing red-flag conditions in the photo. I'd assume that, like most display tracks, it isn't anything like level, and therefore the spring question still needs to be answered. Brake shoes are certainly worn, but they are replaceable consumables, and are probably held tight to the tire by taking up all the adjustment (and then some, maybe with extra blocking in the rigging). I'd want to find out how much meat is left on the tires, they look a mite thin to me for a heavy reprofiling. I don't see egg shaped holes surrounding the pins in any of the spring or brake rigging, nor do I see obvious damage. The rust on the bottom of the tire, since it is limited to the bottom, is most likely a result of gravity plus water rather than loose tires.

Nothing in the photo would make me condemn this as a theoretical potential operating restoration - but without a hands-on investigation, it is pretty much just a theoretical exercise in any case.

Are we just having fun, or is there some serious interest?

dave

Dave-

This thread brings up an interesting question, and one I've never got an answer to. Would a thorough inspection of 757 have revealed that it could have been restored for less cost (including movements) than the cost of restoring sister engine #765? You could substitiute the 755, 759 or 763 for #757. In other words, would it have made more economical sense to restore one of these other locomotives? Then the 765 would have taken the place of the display locomotive during the time that the restored engine was being used by Ft. Wayne. My guess is that this was never considered. My question is, should it have been (or should it be when it comes to a future restoration of locomotive "X")?

I realize there is a bigger question here still; a place to run. But that is not part of this particualar equation.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

Les - quite the proverbial can of worms.

Steam locomotives are pretty simple in many ways, and complex in others. Economics applied to them are much less obvious.

Comparing any two engines from the same class, after decades of service followed by weathering, each will in some ways be the best compared to the others.

Since the real cost of restoration is known only once the last bill has been paid, we are only taking a "best guess based on what little we know" approach if we are going to make such a choice.

Economic sense in short or long term? That is the question. Wheter tis nobler to take the barely-worn-after-shopping engine and do the Form 4, go through the running gear and appliances, and use up the remaining margin left from its service days, or to take the basket case, overhaul it to better than new standards, and know that the next overhaul will be cheaper with the new welded boiler, efficiency and economy better with the LemPorKoop retrofit, and the reliability and availability better meanwhile?

For the East Hooterville RR Museum and Gentlemen's Club, the answer will be very different than for the Major Destination Daily Scenic and Intensive Heavy Train Railroad.

Apart from what rational contemplation we can impose, then comes the emotional connection decision-makers might have to a particular locomotive.

Of course, I'm probably wrong about a lot of this. Just grab the one with the best paint job and do it. Aren't you sorry you asked?

dave

Of the 4 NKP berks I have seen the 757 appears to be the highest mileage locomotive of them all. Before 759 returned to service in the late sixties it was a zero mileage engine. As the last engine overhauled by the NKP, 759 was nearly finished and then stored. To return to service the grates from 757 and possibly a few other peices had to be borrowed for 759. When 759 blew a cylinder head on the N&W the 757 was again the parts engine giving the left cylinder head and piston to 759. I am not sure of the condition of 759 now. I have heard several different reports but I have not seen 759 since it was running for High Iron.

The 763 appears to be a low mileage engine. The 765 was in very good condition before being returned to service in the seventies. I am not sure of 765's condition before the most recent overhaul but it had run quite a few miles. From what I understand the 755 may also be a zero or low mileage engine. I have no clue to the condition of the 779 but do seem to remember it has loaned a few parts to 765.

In short I think 757 may possibly be the most expensive NKP berk to restore. One thing is sure, all of them except the now servicable 765 would take a small fortune to return to service in todays world.

John Bohon

Dave-

NOT sorry I asked. Always interested in your comments.

Les