Railway Preservation News :: View topic - Reading Steam (surviving T-1's, no G-3s) & corporate rec

Just out of curiousity, does anybody know how it was that of all the Anthracite RR's only the Reading Company managed to save road power?

Was it the luck that they persisted with Steam long enough into the Steam era to realize- "hey, maybe we should keep these" or was it rogue employees keeping the them "out of sight, out of mind".

Given that the G-3's were being made into the late 40's, why wasn't one of those kept?

In that vein, whatever became of Reading Company corporate records from that era? It might be interesting to see if retaining the locomotives ever became a directors/officer level matter.

Please respond only with facts as you know them from reliable sources or documents you might have- conjecture won't be helpful.

Author:	superheater [ Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Reading Steam (surviving T-1's, no G-3s) & corporate rec
Just out of curiousity, does anybody know how it was that of all the Anthracite RR's only the Reading Company managed to save road power? Was it the luck that they persisted with Steam long enough into the Steam era to realize- "hey, maybe we should keep these" or was it rogue employees keeping the them "out of sight, out of mind". Given that the G-3's were being made into the late 40's, why wasn't one of those kept? In that vein, whatever became of Reading Company corporate records from that era? It might be interesting to see if retaining the locomotives ever became a directors/officer level matter. Please respond only with facts as you know them from reliable sources or documents you might have- conjecture won't be helpful.

Author:	Joshua K. Blay [ Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Reading Steam (surviving T-1's, no G-3s) & corporate
It is my understanding that the Reading offered a G3 to the city of Reading for display but was declined. I'm still trying to understand why the engines were purchased new in 1948. A lot of the records were destroyed in the Outer Station fire of 1978, and also by Conrail cleaning out of major offices at the shops in Reading with the assistance of portable incinerators. I would try the Tech Society, RRMPA, or Hagley to see what you might find. Can't the CNJ #592 at the B&O be considered road power as well? Joshua, a Reading area resident, and burgeoning RDG fan.

Author:	superheater [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Reading Steam (surviving T-1's, no G-3s) & corporate
I should have specified large late model road power, your are right 592 is a road engine-for that matter the DLW952 was road power as well.

Author:	John Bohon [ Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Reading Steam (surviving T-1's, no G-3s) & corporate
Reading kept the T-1s as protection power and from what I can tell kept them as long as they did not need major repairs or until their flue time ran out. I was recently told the decision to keep the T-1 and G-3 classes of locomotives may have been to allow their equipment trusts to run out as discussed in an earlier thread. All other steam was apparantly scrapped fairly quickly after the end of regular steam operation. The T-1s were also prefered over the 2-10-2s in coal service because of their shorter wheel base. As far as I know, and I don't know much about the anthracite roads, none of the others kept their steam power in reserve as long as the Reading. John Bohon

Author:	robertjohndavis [ Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:	False premise and some other details
Super, You should know this better than anyone, the Reading did NOT save any modern road power. In fact, they kept the T-1's for the Rambles and then sold them off - two to preservation and two for scrap. Only the CNJ and DL&W saw to it that road engines were preserved. You should also note that the Reading is the most represented among stem locomotive ranks, but except for the Black Diamond inspection engine and the relic at the Franklin Insititute, these were also bought second hand. The Reading never did preserve any road locomotive beyond it useful life, either in revenue or PR service. Rob Rob superheater wrote: Just out of curiousity, does anybody know how it was that of all the Anthracite RR's only the Reading Company managed to save road power? Was it the luck that they persisted with Steam long enough into the Steam era to realize- "hey, maybe we should keep these" or was it rogue employees keeping the them "out of sight, out of mind". Given that the G-3's were being made into the late 40's, why wasn't one of those kept? In that vein, whatever became of Reading Company corporate records from that era? It might be interesting to see if retaining the locomotives ever became a directors/officer level matter. Please respond only with facts as you know them from reliable sources or documents you might have- conjecture won't be helpful.

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Author:	Richard Glueck [ Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: False premise and some other details
Reading also maintained shop switcher 1251 as well. There was a T1, 2123, kept as parts to maintain the other four, then it too went to scrap. I think 2124 would have gone to scrap had Nelson Blount not requested it. Perhaps the fact that they remained intact and in such good condition made them last longer in the company's hands. Why did Reading choose to stop the fabulously successful "Reading Rambles"? Was it a matter of maintaining infrastructure and shopping costs? I think a question will always hang over why a G3 didn't escape.

Author:	robertjohndavis [ Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Shop Goat, G3 and CNJ T-38
Richard, It should be noted the shop goat made it out of RDG hands because it was purchased by George Hart, I do believe. There was an effort to purchase a G3 and a CNJ T-38. The failure to raise the money and execute the purchases is the subject of much legend. Having known some folks involved, I can say none were sadder than those who tried. I had never heard of #2123 being saved for parts for the Rambles? Is this the fifth Beatle or the 5th D&H PA, or rumor? It has been stated in print a few places that the Rambles ended due to the declining fortunes of the Reading. True or not I cannot say. Rob

Author:	BILL [ Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RDG #2123
I believe in the book "Twilight of Steam" it is stated that at that time (1963) the #2123 was kept around, being stripped for parts. IIRC, spare parts went with the #2124......but I could be wrong. Perhaps someone with ties to Steamtown in N. Walpole/Bellows Falls can take this further.......

Author:	Les Beckman [ Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RDG #2123
I believe William S. Young in his magazine STEAM LOCOMOTIVE & RAILROAD TRADITION stated that the Reading kept 5 T-1's around for the Rambles, including the 2123. BTW, the Reading 0-6-0T shop switcher was # 1251 (not 1238). Les

Author:	John Bohon [ Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: False premise and some other details
The Reading ended the somewhat profitable Rambles due to a declining financial situation and the fact that one of the engines was out of flue time and the other was nearly out of time. At least some of the locomotives were also getting to be high mileage engines and would eventually need running gear repairs as well. The railroad chose not to spend the money. I also seem to remember that the commuter coaches used on the Rambles were declining in number so car availibility would eventually become a problem. One of the Trains magazine articles of the period covering the Rambles mentioned the 2123 being kept as a parts engine. I think the roller bearings from this engine went to Steamtown when the 2123 was scrapped. Does anyone know when the 2123 was cut up? John Bohon

Author:	rev66vette [ Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RDG #2123
To quote from Ziels's book, from a photo caption on P 180 " For two years the Reading Company's no. 2124 pulled the early " Iron Horse Rambles", sometimes coupled to her sister 2100. When 2124 was retired, 2102 took her place. The other two remaining T-1's are the 2101 which is serviceable, and the 2123, being stripped for spare parts".

Author:	RDGRAILFAN [ Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: RDG #2123 Scrap date 1966
2123 went to scrap in 1966 per "steam locomotives of the Reading and P&R" 2123 - scrap- 1966 no listing regarding location 2100 -sold 1967 to steigel Batlimore 2101 - sold 1967 to steigel Batlimore 2102 - sold 1966 to steam tours 2124 - sold 1962 to steamtown The frist group to T-1's went to scrap in 1957 11 - 1957 mostly returns from "P" company lease 5- 1958 4 - 1959 4 - 1960 I do recall the roundhouse was open for one of the Reading rambles (?) and there were 4 T-1's stored plus 2124 which was haluling the train out of Wayne Junction. T-1's were saved for protection and other uses such as boiler power at carpenter steel and side uses.

Author:	Richard Glueck [ Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: RDG #2123
Thank you for the correction on the shop goat. I have edited teh original post for the correction. I had confused George Hart's ex-CPR 4-6-2, #1238 with his Reading 0-6-0 #1251. I do remember chasing a double header of 4-6-0 #972 and the little #1251, over Jacks Mtn., on the Western Maryland, during the 60's. It was quite a little expedition with that tiny switcher in the lead!

Author:	Dave Stephenson [ Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RDG #2123
The doubleheader over Jacks Mtn on WM was 1286 and 972. Hart wasn't running 1238 at the time. 1251 was confined to runs on the M&P from York to Yoe, PA (and was playing way over its head at that!!).

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Author:	Richard Glueck [ Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RDG #2123
It's odd that I should have a photo of the event, isn't it? I chased several of those trips with Ron Ziel, as his guest.