Further proof that this society will do anything to legitimize the illegitimate. Let them buy canvas and frames and they can do anything want. People have the right to express themselves anyway they want AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT DAMAGE THE PROPERTY OF OR AFFECT OTHERS! All this does is give miscreants the idea that it is okay to vandalize railroad rolling stock, walls of buildings, underpass supports, etc. Photos will be published of these "wonderful" works with no explanation that the cars were retired. It will further the idea among the uninformed that it is perfectly fine to paint anything that you want as you are "expressing yourself". What a bunch of cowflop! This encourages these jackasses to trespass on railroad property, be injured or killed and then generate more bad press for the unsuspecting and innocent railroad company. Or maybe I'm too biased after having to remove this "artwork" from some of the equipment that belongs to a group that I volunteer for.

Don C.

During our Pacific Wilderness experience in Victoria,BC we had constant trouble with local "artists". Our security guys caught 2 locals in the act one evening, called the cops,turned them over to the police along with their spray cans etc. I called the police hq's. the next day to arrange for signing the necessary complaint paper work and was basically told to not waste my time as all the judge would do is give them probation.
About 2 weeks later we caught the same 2 plus 3 of their pals in the act. This time we took the 5 of them into the roundhouse for "safe -keeping" and questioning until the police could be contacted. We apprehended them at about 11pm and due to phone "trouble" we weren't able to get through to the cops 'till about noon the next day. The 13 hours they spent in the r'house broom closet did wonders for their attitude, and our promise that if there was another incident their stay would be a LOT longer must have worked. For the remaining 18 months we had no further problems!!
Ross Rowland.....no s please.......

I suppose that giving "artists" a legitimate canvas is warranted for some expression, particularly when art is repressed, but this is nonsense. I understand that there are websites dedicated to this "urban folk art", but when it comes down to basics, this is simply vandalism that dispoils public and private property. Vandalism, is vandalism, is vandalism.

Graffiti as art died with Keith Haring.

In 28 years on the RR, I've never seen anyone applying grafitti, but it sure is prolific, and not just on the railroad. It's a major ugly problem in big cities and small towns alike. I still think spray paint should cost $8.00 a can (grafitti tax) and be kept in stores in locked cases, to discourage grafitti artists who both buy and steal it. I seem to recall that some anti-grafitti legislation was passed somewhere, but can't remember where. One anti-tax person once told me that if I didn't like grafitti I should go down there and confront those doing it. No thanks, I'd rather live to see my retirement.

"The graffiti art will then tour the country by train as part of a traveling exhibit."

I'm curious about this on many fronts... First, what RR will want to pull this "train" around for all to see and give creative ideas to those who (2) already have rolling grafittied "canvasses" rolling around on the nation's rails? I'll steer clear of my soapbox, but the people that do that kind of stuff don't give much thought to the historical value of the object their "art" is painted on. They see a few boxcars tagged as "legitimate art", the taggers won't discern between an in-service run of the mill Class I boxcar and a historic interurban car parked behind a fence. They'll see a train, they see artistic opportunity. First punk to get caught tagging one of our Museum's cars will be hung by their toenails and fed Tabasco through their nose! >;^)

Port Huron, Michigan had a gang problem back in the early '90's. All the businesses in the area that sold spray paint had to card the customers, regardless of age. I bought some spray paint at Super K and they required ID because they had to put my birthdate into the computer for it to complete the transaction. Almost like buying smokes or booze. After a few years, the gangs pretty much dispersed and grafitti has been pretty much nonexistant since. I have noticed around the county that grafitti has been sprouting up quite a bit in the past couple of months though... must be some old gang-banger trying to relive their past... Wonder if we're going be "carded" for Krylon again soon!

Ross, you are a man after my own heart! Luckily, they didn't get a lawyer after you, because I am sure they could have made some sort of complaint. Sad how the criminals have more rights than the law biding citizens. See my phylosaphy (?) (we need a spell checker here) is that if someone does damage to someone else's proprerty, the offended party gets ten minutes with the offender's property. So in your case, you would get ten minutes in the kids room. Imagine how much damage you could do to their video games, TV, computer, DVD player, etc. bet that would cure them real fast! Or f they were old enough to own a car.........

Later!
Mr. Ed

Sounds like Port Huron was on the right track. While plenty of gang members do grafitti, there seem to be other regular types who consider it an acceptable art form and beautifying the landscape. The cops have more than enough to do catching more dangerous criminals, so the solution is to remove the source. Make spray paint expensive for those who buy it, unavailable for those who steal it and card or make persons sign for what they do get. And if it's too expensive, it probably won't kill me to paint my deck furniture with a brush.

In Minneapolis, they have a different approach to the problem. Lawmakers agree that tagging is unsightly, and that it is hard to catch and punish the taggers. Besides, that would be judgmental. So they go after the victim of the tagging. They mandate that a person who has had the side of his building defaced, clean it up within a specified time limit or face a fine for displaying the "art."

RTK

The other question that comes to mind is, how upset are these guys going to be when somebody "tags" their touring grafitti train?

Hi Jeff, sorry but I think you misunderstood my post. I said: "Port Huron, Michigan had a gang problem back in the early '90's. All the businesses in the area that sold spray paint had to card the customers, regardless of age... After a few years, the gangs pretty much dispersed and grafitti has been pretty much nonexistant since. I have noticed around the county that grafitti has been sprouting up quite a bit in the past couple of months though... must be some old gang-banger trying to relive their past... " I meant Port Huron in general had gang grafitti all over the place back then. After a few things happening, including the aforementioned carding of spray paint, oh yeah, and a shooting (!), the gangs fizzled out, but look to be back in town in one form or another because there are gang symbols and writing on buildings and walls. Could it be gangs again? Maybe. Could be some punks with nothing better to do with their time, too. Never in my post did I mention the taggers on the railroad cars were gang members. Actually, from what I've seen riding past on the rails, most of the grafitti looks anything but!

As far as it being an "art form"... well, that's debatable when you can't even read half of what's written on the cars. I HAVE seen some very neat paintings, which must've taken DAYS to paint, and the occasional humorous ones, but mainly what I see out there is people trying to put their names out there. In Detroit, there are a few neighborhoods that have actually used grafitti artists to combat... grafitti! Some of the walls of buildings have been legally used as canvasses for the neighborhoods to show their pride and heritage, as well as tell stories. There have been some beautiful murals to come out of the projects, as well. It differs from the average grafitti in that it's not just a bunch of crap written on a wall showing <insert name here> was here. I wouldn't mind seeing a LEGITIMATE mural painted on boxcars or such if it were done in such a way. My concern continues to be is the message being presented in such a way as to spur creativity to potential future artists, or is it only legitmizing something that, although rooted in "culture", doesn't make it right to do it out in the real world. I myself am only 31, and I was raised in the city and seen a lot of things while there. There are too many excuses why people rob/steal/rape/vandalize. I was raised never to do any of those things and even though I was surrounded by some of those very things every day, I knew what it meant to do something to somebody else or their property and I wouldn't want it done to me. Why "tag" something because it's the "in thing" for the culture that's around you? Sorry, even though I"ve lived in the country now for some time, I still have my street smarts, and that doesn't fly in my house. I've become active in the preservation movement and try to use what I've learned throughout my life to combat the vandals at our Museum's place. With money, volunteer help, and time... it's a neverending work in progress, which is why vandalism gets me so hot under the collar. Unfortunately, it's something we have to deal with the best we can.

I've rambled on long enough, time to burn the soapbox!
Take care out there

Bravo, Well said, Dave. The issue boils down to this. If you own the "canvas" upon which you paint, or have permission from it's owner, then what you are creating is art. If you do not, regardless of the esthetics of what you create, you are defacing someone else's property. This is no different from theft, since the owner has to bear the cost of removal, and should be treated and prosecuted as such.