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| Private Locomotive Ownership https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20306 |
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| Author: | Jason Whiteley [ Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Private Locomotive Ownership |
How many/which locomotives out there (steam or diesel) are owned by individuals rather than a railroad or museum/historical society? The engine doesn't have to be operable to make the list. I'm thinking primarily along the lines of something like Dan Markoff and Eureka or perhaps Ross Rowland and CO614. Just curious to see if private ownership in North America is anything like it is in the UK, though I suspect it isn't. Thanks. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Private Locomotive Ownership |
Without getting into specifics, there are many, many times when a locomotive that is said to belong to an excursion operation actually belongs to one of the individuals within the organization. It would not surprise me in the least to find that, for whatever reasons (business accounting, tax dodges, etc.), the Strasburg's 7312, 89, and/or 90 are still technically owned by specific shareholders of the railroad. I know that, in other cases I have first-hand experience with, that certain officers of the organization retained ownership of certain locomotives and/or cars. It's hardly an unusual situation. I know of at least two short-line railroads where, for example, the president of the railroad set up a leasing company to own the line's locomotives, and the line technically leased the locomotives on a month-by-month basis--in effect, leasing the locomotives to themselves. I wager such practices will continue as long as tax regulations are as convoluted as they are. In Britain, there is also frequent individual ownership of locos up to mainline 100-mph size, but there are also organizations set up to own specific locos or examples of a class of loco. Many of the survivors of the Barry scrapyards were beneficiaries of such clubs/partnerships, and many diesel classes, such as Class 40s, Westerns, Hymeks, and Deltics, have also succeeded along these lines. We are starting to see similar inroads to such organizations in the USA--for example, the Erie Lackawanna Dining Car Society. Unfortunately, the only loco-owning groups that spring to mind as a club success story at the moment are the Friends of the 261 and the Fort Wayne group, maybe the 4449 group as well............ |
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| Author: | tim o'm [ Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Private Locomotive Ownership |
I won't argue that the above mentioned clubs are successful, but the 4449, last I heard, was owned by the city of Portland, OR, and 261 was owned by the National Railway Museum of Green Bay. I am unaware of change of ownership, or even if there is a small, if any, fee to the owners for use. I don't know of the status of NKP 765. |
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| Author: | Erik Ledbetter [ Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Private Locomotive Ownership |
Jason Whiteley wrote: How many/which locomotives out there (steam or diesel) are owned by individuals rather than a railroad or museum/historical society?
The Levins' Pennsy Es and Erie E come to mind.... |
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| Author: | NH0401 [ Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Private Locomotive Ownership |
How could anybody forget the collection of faux NKP diesel locos out in the Pacific Northwest ? There is also a fellow (whose name escapes me at the moment) who trades under the name "Vintage Locomotive" and has amassed a good-sized diesel locomotive collection. There is also (at least ) one fellow that frequents this forum who owns a handful of locos. Dave |
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| Author: | Dave Lewandoski [ Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Private Locomotive Ownership |
I believe Doyle MsCormack owns his Alco. Dave |
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| Author: | sc 'doc' lewis [ Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Private Locomotive Ownership |
Ahh...the Kepner collection comes to mind. GW51 is in private hands in Colorado. sc 'doc' lewis |
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| Author: | rev66vette [ Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Private Locomotive Ownership |
I believe that "Ed Bowers" is the owner of Vintage locomotive. |
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| Author: | Boyd Owens [ Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Private Locomotive Ownership |
Clint Jones has quite a collection of Es, Fs, BL2s, Steam locos, and who knows what else. They are spread all over the upper mid-west at various locations. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Loco ownership, AB&A 58, W&W, etc. |
I didn't want to go there, but since you started it....... At times, ownership of locos can depend on whether someone is waving money or a bill! I raised a legitimate question ages ago on exactly how in heck one asserts or affirms ownership of a locomotive, since the MVA and DMV seem not to be interested in issuing valid titles for locomotives. As someone currently involved in what may become a lawsuit over a vintage automobile that we've impounded but can't sell without a clear title, and having seen the debacle of the Dick Jensen fiasco, I feel this is very serious business. It was my understanding, from "insider" info among old officers of Historic Red Clay Valley (parent non-profit of the Wilmington & Western), that Brian Woodcock had donated AB&A 0-6-0 58 to the W&W/HRCV at the time of its return to service on the W&W a couple years ago. In other W&W locos, I believe Tom Marshall (HRCV/W&W co-founder) originally had or shared title to CN 92 and Mississippi Central 98; I think HRCV now officially has title to at least 98. Two other locos that operated on the line in recent decades, ex-Navy 3 and Pacific Coast Lumber 2-8-2T, were owned by other W&W officers. Some of the other locos, for example Buffalo Creek & Gauley 14, were donated to HRCV as I recall. I used to have a roster of W&W equipment that became a sea of notations and comments and updates, and to be honest at their worst it was impossible to keep the W&W/HRCV roster straightened out even WITH a scorecard! Yet another convoluted situation was the Royal Hudson 2839--Atlantic Central seemed at times to have a membership constantly in flux, and I hope they straightened it out before 2839 was sold out West. There's a legend that floats about in my circle that when one party sold his "share" of a particular locomotive to the other partner, he demanded a particularly-difficult-to-get hat and pair of boots as part of the transaction. The cash was a simple matter, but the guy threatened action if the boots didn't show up--which they finally did. |
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| Author: | tomgears [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Loco ownership, AB&A 58, W&W, etc. |
The W&W does own 98 and 92. They also did indeed own #3 but some former managers deemed it unsuitable for the operation and sold it off. Locomotive #37 was leased to the W&W and that was not a good situation in the long fun. Brian Woodcock donated both #3 and #58 to the W&W, #58 was donated to be run as the "Veterans Locomotive". In the late 70's and early 80's the W&W was in the collecting mode and a large fleet was assembled. Since then the focus has been on being an operating tourist railroad and museum. They are one of the older and best run of such organizations. They have learned that if you have too many hungry mouths to feed you wont get much done. It is a lesson that other places should learn. |
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| Author: | Ted Miles [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Private Locomotive Ownership |
Folks, looking through those great J. David Conrad books, I see that a lot of single locomotives are owned by the City of such and such. Ownership issues only seem to come up when lead and asbestos issues come up for discussion. In theory the Park and Recreation Department of the city would also be the "owner of many of these locomotives. Ted Miles |
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| Author: | Mr.Pullman [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Private Locomotive Ownership |
Jack Showalter's two Canadian 4-6-2's and his Ex-C&O GP-7. He is owner, restorer/maintainer and operator. |
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| Author: | m3ohwell [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Private Locomotive Ownership |
What about the 972 at Jim Thorpe, PA. I believe it belongs to Geroge Hart, albeit in in very bad shape. Ed K. cp. Laurel Run |
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| Author: | Joshua K. Blay [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Private Locomotive Ownership |
972 is at Strasburg and owned by SRC. You're thinking of the 10XX. Joshua |
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