Can anyone elaborate on this project? Sounds like another big dreams and no money project that saw another park engine moved, dismantled and abandoned. It would be nice if the latest owner can restore it, but his predictions of having it running by 2007 sound pretty optimistic to me.

http://www.oregonlive.com/metronorth/or ... xml&coll=7

Yes, this is another "Big Dreams" project. The fact that this "Brian Fleming" thinks the total restoration cost will be below or around $100,000 scares the living sh*t out of me. In my opinion and others, this simply raises red flags.

Just getting that thing out of it's current location, then having the engine and tender placed on flatcars, then shipped to Longview, and then finally unloaded, will run well over $100,000.

As far as I know, this guy does not have any "antique Pullman passenger cars", let alone any equipment or trackage.

With an little researching, this guy appears to be the same person who helped make an Shay disappear back in 1997-1998, which was on display in an Park in Longview, WA. And in 97-98 it was removed and it was said it would be restored in less than an year for an city event. As of this date, the Shay has disappeared off the face of the earth and has not been seen since.

With an few other pieces of information I have received, Mr. Fleming doesn't really care about restoring something correctly. He plans to replace the tender with another one, Last time it was checked, the tender just needed basic work, not to be replaced. He also plans on changing and modifying quite a bit of the locomotive's appearance.

More or less, this guy is one of the last people who should own an steam locomotive.

The engine will be screwed in the long run, The City and Chamber will be screwed somehow with their "buyback deal". I don't think an any City in their right mind would buy back an half restored steam locomotive for $100,000 +....

-Switchman

Wasn't SP&S 539 a former Northern Pacific 2-8-2? Or am I getting my locomotives mixed up?

Les

Don't any of these municipal people do a "due dilligence" on these characters who surface with tales that sound too good to be true? Or, are they simply thrilled to transfer liability and responsibility for 200 tons of "junk" to someone else?

There have been a number of situations in the past 15 years where the governmental agencies involved could have save mucho grief and treasure by doing some investigation in the home territory of the proposer or contract applicant.

Yes it was an former Northern Pacific locomotive, it's NP number was 1762.

Contrary to switchman's "drive by libel" the locomotive is in good hands. The new owner of the 539 is DEEPLY plugged into the steam scene on the west coast and has the necessary resources for restoration to operation available. Transportation to a very suitable facility is being arranged, materials are are already on order and a qualified (and experienced) restoration team has been lined up.

If you've followed any of the discussions regarding the Reading 2100 on some other railfan sites, you'll understand why the new owner is reluctant to say anything. I just got off the phone with him, and he's quite upset by some of the responses to Bob's original request.

Hopefully this restoration will be successful. I wish the owner and his crew well. I find it rather interesting the number of Northern Pacific restorations that have occurred, or been attempted, in the post-steam era. They include:

1. A 4-8-4 (yes, I know that number 700 is an SP&S engine but she is a near duplicate of a NP A-3 or A-4 class, I forget which, and may in fact, have been diverted to the SP&S from the NP's order for one of those two classes.)

2. 4-6-0 # 328 (S-10 class; no longer in operation)

3. 0-6-0 # 1070 (L-9 class; no longer in operation)

4. 4-6-2 # 2153/2156 (these two class Q-3 Pacifics are currently the property of Minnesota Transportation Museum which supposedly is restoring one to operation.)

5. 2-8-2 # 1762 (SP&S # 539) which is the last survivor of 125 W-3 class Mikados built for the NP between 1913 and 1920, and the subject of this particular thread.

There also was some talk in days past, of restoring another 0-6-0 and at least one S-4 class 4-6-0. What I find particularly interesting is that no Great Northern steamers have been restored, a railroad that has had a rather large following, especially amongst HO scale modellers. Meanwhile, those fans of Northern Pacific steam have had a chance to see steamers from their railroad operate in the diesel era.

Les

I have seen photos of the Inland Empire Paper 0-6-0 no. 924 now at Snoqualmie (ex-NP 924, originally St. Paul & Duluth 74) under steam in the 1970's, I'm not sure when she last ran. Was that the "other 0-6-0"? The S-4 would be no. 1364 in Toppenish, and the restoration photos on the Yakima Valley Rail and Steam Museum Association website (http://nprymuseum.org/NP%201364.htm) show a good deal of progress on what appears to be a high-quality restoration.

As for GN steamers, while none have run in preservation, there is at least one restoration currently in progress (last I heard anyway), and a few others that have had attempts made at restoration over the years:

H-5 Pacific no. 1355 is being restored (slowly) by the Siouxland Historical Railroad Association (http://www.siouxlandrail.org/index.html) in Sioux City, Iowa

Fred Kepner's F-8 class 2-8-0 no. 1246 was originally displayed in Woodland Park Zoo in Seattle, and was removed supposedly for restoration to steam.

P-2 class 4-8-2 no. 2507 was removed from her original display site in Maryhill, WA and moved to Pasco for an aborted restoration attempt. She is now on display in Wishram.

The other surviving P-2, no. 2523 was reportedly one of the engines considered (briefly) by North Star Rail before they selected Milwaukee Road 261 instead.

This is just the type of thing I was talking about when I said if someone is going to "call someone out" they should step up and use a real name. This guy has made 4 posts and now is calling this guy a bum. Switchman might be right but I don't give his post much weight. If you are calling someone a bum, don't do it from the shadows.

Well said Mr. Gears-couldn't have said it better myself!!!
Ross Rowland...no s please.......

To Richard Jenkins:

Richard -

Thanks for the listing of the Great Northern locomotives. Of these four, I believe that the only real progress made toward a restoration was on 4-6-2 # 1355 in Sioux City, Iowa. Unfortunately, from recently reading their website, it APPEARS that the restoration has been abandoned and that the Pacific is simply going to be a cosmetic display in the old Milwaukee Road roundhouse in Sioux City that the group saved as a home for the 1355. Perhaps I misread the website and if that information is not correct, I'd appreciate being set straight.

As for NP 0-6-0 # 924, yes that is the other 0-6-0 I alluded to. I thought I remembered her being in steam at one time, but wasn't sure. And the 1364 is the S-4 Ten-Wheeler I was thinking about. Glad to hear that progress is being made toward her restoration. I've long thought that a Northern Pacific S-4 would make a great short line or museum locomotive. I am glad that one may finally be put back in operation.

Thus the NP list grows from 5 to 7 locomotives; two 0-6-0's, two 4-6-0's, a Pacific, a Mike and a 4-8-4. Not a bad record for just one railroad!

Les

For the last several days I have been wondering how a real man deals with being slammed on by someone who will not step up to the plate and let his true identity be known.

I am the owner of the SP&S 539 and I am here to set the record strait I am a self-funded steam locomotive enthusiast; I have the means, staff and the location to fully restore the locomotive in a reasonable amount of time.

Also regarding the Shay locomotive that I’m being accused of stealing away of the public eye is simply not true. I was 13 at the time and my best friend Luke Johnson 16 years of age at the time, who is currently the Chief Mechanical Officer at the Mt. Rainier Scenic Railroad, and I proposed a plan to the city to restore the locomotive to operating condition with the support of are families and the guidance of the late Jack Anderson.
To make a long story short a local city big shot liked the project so much in 1996 we where asked to return the parts to the locomotive, and it is now in his back yard. So on that level I am Blameless (not my fault).

I do have a place to operate the locomotive but I for obvious reasons am not going to tell you where until I am good and ready because Crazed Foamers like this Switchman character don’t know what they are talking about and should keep there over zealous opinions to there self or at least of public forums such as this!

I have no problem answering questions regarding this project and am interested in the where abouts of any of the parts that belong to the locomotive that might be floating around.

Thank You,
Brian Fleming

Les:

As an NP/GN enthusiast, I'm curious and surprised about the news of the GN 1355. I know that this has been such a long-term project as to wear out even the most devoted (started 20 plus years ago).

But the Flimsies update a few days ago made me feel like there maybe was new life in the group.

From other sources I understand that this particular locomotive was badly worn out at the outset of the restoration project. I thought that Gary Bensman had been hired to complete some of the more technical aspects of the job.

The P-2 class now in Wishram (GN 2507) is still a good candidate for restoration when the atmosphere is right for more big steam.

The NP S-4 class in Toppenish is on track for restoration but the uncertainty for a place to run has been trumped by politics and the shenanigans of the Yakima County Commissioners and the former owners of the line (ex-NP, then Washington Central) and the current owners of the Washington Dinner Train. Definitely a case where apparently the "nice guys finish last". Too bad for all of us. . .

The second paragraph answers all......!

Its nice to hear the truth about what is going to happen with the SP&S 539. I look foward to seeing it run whan you guys get it done. Good Luck you guys.

PNWR1853