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NKP 170
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20374		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  bobyar2001 [ Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  NKP 170
At the roundhouse in Bellvue, Ohio. Both still exist, separately.

http://www.railimages.com/gallery/greggmahlkov/ahs
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NKP 170
I saw her several years ago at the St. Louis museum. She's still in good shape, protected and cared for. FWIU, Paulsen Spence owned several of these gorgeous Hudsons, but each took it's turn at the torch, leaving #170 as the sole survivor.
Author:  jwallis [ Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NKP 170
The group that restored the 1522 considered rebuilding this one. A little small for a modern mainline steam excursion, though. These small Hudsons probably should have been Pacifics.

But, as the caption suggests, a handsome machine nonetheless.
Author:  Les Beckman [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NKP 170/Spence
Speaking of Paulsen Spence and his locomotive collection at the "Louisiana Eastern" and the gravel pit he owned, has anyone ever published an all time roster of these locomotives?

Les
Author:  bobyar2001 [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NKP 170/Spence
Les,

Put this link in flat view and scroll down. I think the list is pretty complete:

http://rypn.sunserver.com/forum/viewtop ... _view=flat
Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NKP 170/Spence
bobyar2001 wrote:
Les,

Put this link in flat view and scroll down. I think the list is pretty complete:

http://rypn.sunserver.com/forum/viewtop ... _view=flat


RYPN Staff and Doug Bailey;

I cannot thank you all enough for making the entire RYPN Interchange archive available. I spent an enjoyable lunch hour reading the material we posted those years ago about Paulsen Spence and the tragic story of his collection.

In regards to Spence, I had also inquired about a SE Texas museum called the "Alamo Citrus Center". "HRMO'Biph" had replied that it "was mainly around a still operating Corliss pumping station that served irrigation" in the either the Alamo or Orange Texas area.

I have been researching former steam powered pumphouses in the Texas area; and I now realize he was referring to Old Hidalgo Pumphouse in Hidalgo, Texas:

http://www.mcallen.lib.tx.us/orgs/pumph/pumph1.htm

Alamo, Texas is only a 15 minute drive from Hidalgo; and matches his description perfectly. I plan on learning more about Hidalgo Pumphouse when time and opportunity allows; and now I know to ask about the story behind the Alamo Citrus Center as well.

In the meantime "HRMO'Biph", this picture is for you. It is the inside of the former steam pumping station in Waco Texas. I believe it is quite close to you; and I did not know if you knew about it:

Image

More pictures at http://www.survivingworldsteam.com/gallery/album28 .

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project
Author:  Les Beckman [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NKP 170/Spence collection
Bob:

Thanks very much. If I counted correctly, there were a total of 37 locomotives. Out of this total, 33 were scrapped. Those people make Dick Jensen look like a knight in shining armor!

Les
Author:  tomgears [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Paulson Spence, Estate Plans, & You
The story has it that Paulson Spence died suddenly in New York on a trip to work out some details for his planned railroad expansion. It would have been the last great steam railroad had he pulled it off. I think he died in either Penn or Grand Central Station.

The whole situation goes to show what can happen if you expire suddenly without plans for your beloved collection. This can applies not only to locomotives and rolling stock but also books, photographs, negatives, slides, and a thousand other things we all seem to keep around. If you pass on to the great roundhouse in the sky unless you have something firm set up in writing all of your beloved stuff can end up gone forever.

I know there are more than a couple of folks who post here that own some sort of rail equipment. Do you have anything preplanned? If you die do you have anything other than the hope that your heirs will do the right thing?
Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Paulson Spence, Estate Plans, & You
Tom;

In reading through the stories posted on Paulson Spence, he had indeed included his railroad in his will.

What he did NOT do was include his wife and family in his railroad; it instead became something that divided them. After his death; his wife declared his will invalid because he did not sign every page of it; and they sold the equipment off for scrap.

I think that is the gist of it; search the Interchange for Paulson Spence, and dig in. It makes for facinating reading; the Interchange has truely become a treasure trove of information.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Paulson Spence, Estate Plans, & You
The story goes even deeper, and becomes a bit sordid. Spence apparently collected other "loves" besides steam locomtives. His embittered family destroyed the locomotive collection as a last great swipe at the man who built it. Needless to say, the widow and children were not railfans.

Collections, whether they be rolling stock, locomotives, slides, negatives, or prints should not be left to survivors to recognize as valuable. All should be dedicated to a permanent collection in custodial hands prior to our feeling "a little headachey", etc.
Author:  pm-man [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Paulson Spence, Estate Plans, & You
Wow, talk about hitting home -----

Or, if not dedicated to a museum or achive (which I obviously believe in), make sure your relatives have a fairly up to date listing of WHAT you have, WHAT its worth, and WHO would be interested in purchasing it. Include it with your Estate Planning documents. If you don't do it for yourself, do it for your loved ones --- trust me, they'll thank you.

On a personal note, my dad only finished doing this about six months before he died, which was very unexpected; his collection of postcards of Port Huron/ Thumb region of Michigan alone numbered over 20,000 cards, and many will be published in book form in the near future, a wish he had for many years. In addition, he asked that when/ if certain items from his collection were sold, the money be put into college funds to help with my daughter and son's education. Sadly, though my dad was only 58, and my children only a week old (talk about the cycle of life folks) and three when he died, his legacy for them lives on in ways they will only understand later on.

He also made sure his 30 years-worth of hand-written notes and interviews with family had been put into FamilyTreeMaker. Becuase of his efforts, his grandchildren can trace portions of our family to Welsh bowmen under "Long Shanks", and even tentative leads to William the Conquer in 1066.

You can't always place a monetary value on it, but you can DEFINITELY place a personal one ---- I'd trade it all to have him back, and for my kids to grow up knowing their grandfather (something that doesn't happen in my family, sadly) ---- but at least they know he thought enough of them to make sure they were taken care of.

Peace --

TJG
Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Paulson Spence/Estate Plans and preservation
TJ:

A heart warming story. One which we should all listen carefully to. As for your Dad, he sounds like a wonderful man. Wish I had known him.

As for the Paulsen Spence family being embittered toward the man and just selling the locomotive collection for scrap in an act of vindictiveness; sorry, but it just doesn't wash. If they had sold EVERYTHING for scrap, then yes. But they sold four locomotives to other parties. Thus these four locomotives ended up as a testament to Mr. Spence because if he had not stepped in to save them in the first place, they would have surely been scrapped! Thus the family assured his place in the annals of steam preservation by selling those four engines! Yes, Spence should have had a better plan to save the entire collection. But the families selling of the balance was not really HIS fault, but theirs entirely. And they're the ones that should hang their heads in shame.

Les
Author:  tomgears [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Paulson Spence/Estate Plans and preservation
I know for sure that Wilmington and Western's 4-4-0 #98 was sold to Tom Marshall prior to Spence's death. I think the others were sold prior as well but am not certain.
Author:  rev66vette [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Paulson Spence/Estate Plans and preservation
I am not a lawyer, and I know that some legal professionals post here occasionally and perhaps can take my opinion a step further. I believe that in this day and time an IRREVOCABLE TRUST is the way to handle these types of situatons. This is separate and apart from a will and can contain personal property be designated apart from a will. Like the Boy Scout motto: Be prepared!
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Paulson Spence/Estate Plans and preservation
Les, the locomotives you mentioned were sold, in fact, prior to Spence's death. Incidently, the two 4-4-0's wound up at Georgia's Stone Mtn. Railway, where they were portrayed as the Civil War locos General and Texas. I believe they were basically worn out, being pushed in circles by a diesel B unit. If you check out Ziel and Foster's "Steam in the 60's", there is a beautiful portrait of one of the locos in the Louisianna Eastern paint. She was a gorgeous locomotive.
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