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| Beware Scrap Metal Thieves https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20590 |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Mon May 08, 2006 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Beware Scrap Metal Thieves |
Here in Kentucky, we are experiencing a wave of copper thievery. They are stealing air conditioner plumbing from larger buildings/units. Copper is at $3 a pound apparently. |
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| Author: | John Bohon [ Mon May 08, 2006 8:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beware Scrap Metal Thieves |
This really is not new here in the southeast. On the A&R we have had several instances in the last year of people getting caught stealing track materials and selling them for scrap. On our Pee Dee River Ry someone has stolen scrap copper twice. In most instances these folks have had to haul the metal long distances, usually with wheel barrows, and drag it over or under chain length fences. In one case the officer that resonded did not want to write a report and in another a dupty caught the perpatrator red handed, put him in hand cuffs, and then refused to prosecute. In short most cops just do not want to be bothered with such crimes. On another occasion I caught some people stealing double shoulder tie plates from our neighbor railroad the Aberdeen Carolina and Western. At least these folks went to jail. I do not know if they will be prosecuted. Perhaps the worst case was someone stole our central heat and air unit from our Fayetteville, NC office. Apparently they were stealing them from all around the area. Nobody has ever been caught. The new unit is surrounded by a metal cage wrapped in chain link fence. John Bohon |
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| Author: | NH0401 [ Mon May 08, 2006 8:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beware Scrap Metal Thieves |
Copper prices are sky high these days,on account strong demand from guess where-CHINA. Dave |
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| Author: | Howard P. [ Mon May 08, 2006 10:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beware Scrap Metal Thieves |
"Perhaps the worst case was someone stole our central heat and air unit from our Fayetteville, NC office. Apparently they were stealing them from all around the area. Nobody has ever been caught. The new unit is surrounded by a metal cage wrapped in chain link fence. " Gee, sounds like the rooftop HVAC installations I used to do in Da South Bronx in the 1980s..... It's too bad that law enforcement officers are so unwilling to ENFORCE the LAW. We find much the same attitudes taken with right-of-way trespassers. |
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| Author: | rev66vette [ Mon May 08, 2006 10:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beware Scrap Metal Thieves |
Maybe I'm missing a thread on my system, but why do we have to put the blame on law enforcement on a topic that is issued as a point of information? Crimes of this nature are usally ones of stealth, no witnesses, no evidence. Sad fact is that in todays world, we have to be extremely vigilant, especially when we leave our equipment elsewhere. We once had a passenger car stripped of luggage racks, and electrical components while parked within 50 feet of a railroads yard office. |
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| Author: | Howard P. [ Mon May 08, 2006 10:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beware Scrap Metal Thieves |
I think the point is that, yes, protect your stuff by the usual (and perhaps extra-ordinary) means, but if someone is actually caught, don't think that "the law" will do anything about it. The victim of the crime is therefore victimized twice. |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Mon May 08, 2006 11:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beware Scrap Metal Thieves |
Sorry to hear you all have lax enforcement. Here in Lexington they are in fact prosecuting. They are going as far as matching saw marks on captured metal to source objects. Three thieves were reported arrested in the news. |
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| Author: | rev66vette [ Tue May 09, 2006 7:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beware Scrap Metal Thieves |
In this country ANYONE who witnesses a crime has the right to make a complaint against the person committing same. It's not only the police who have the sole power to do so. The Police are saddled with court opinions that preclude them from charging people for crimes that they (the police) have not witnessed. We too, have assisted law enforcement in the apprehension/prosecution of these types of incidents. A slow, time-consuming process, but worth-while, nonetheless. Now if you want to talk about apathetic RR employees....now there's yet another story!! |
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| Author: | Jack Powell [ Tue May 09, 2006 10:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beware Scrap Metal Thieves |
Or so your police, at least individually in a given circumstance, might like you to believe. In Connecticut, to cite as an example Howard P.'s situation, the law says that that "Peace officers *** in their respective precincts, shall arrest, without previous complaint and warrant, any person for any offense in their jurisdiction, when that person is taken or apprehended in the act or on the speedy information of others." Connecticut General Statutes Sec. 54-1f(a). Subsection (b) goes on to require that "Members of the Division of State Police within the Department of Public Safety or of any local police department *** shall arrest, without previous complaint and warrant, any person who the officer has reasonable grounds to believe has committed or is committing a felony." So what's the problem? Obviously a theft without evidence presents a difficulty, and for good reason the police are generally prohibited from breaking down a suspect's door without a search warrant even if they believe your assertions that his garage is full of your luggage racks, joint bars or whatever. But sometimes the problem simply seems to be an unwillingness to be bothered, and if an officer misquotes the law to justify inaction, either knowingly or through ignorance, it's virtually assured that this won't be challenged to his superiors. Would you? Personally, I was recently threatened with arrest after removing unauthorized signs from private property, on the premise, first, that "people have the right to advertise along the side of the road" and secondly, that this "is an unwritten law" (I kid you not). Lest there be any criticism from the moderators or anyone else that this post is off-topic, I'd like to know what experiences others in the railroad preservation community have had in dealing with the police, good and bad, and whether anyone perceives that misunderstandings or misconceptions about what we do affect the way situations like the ones referenced in this thread are handled. GJC |
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| Author: | JimBoylan [ Tue May 09, 2006 12:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beware Scrap Metal Thieves |
George Jackson Churchward wrote: I'd like to know what experiences others in the railroad preservation community have had in dealing with the police, good and bad, and whether anyone perceives that misunderstandings or misconceptions about what we do affect the way situations like the ones referenced in this thread are handled. From my experiences with small Short Line Railroads (NHIR & TYBR), we must overcome the perception that the public and the police seem to have that the job of the police is easy arrests and prosecution, not personally dangerous protection. I'm exaggerating the reality, but there is a fear that the police would rather find something to arrest you (the complainant) for, than pursue a dangerous thief armed with lethal wire cutters!
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| Author: | NH0401 [ Tue May 09, 2006 1:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beware Scrap Metal Thieves |
We are forgetting the middle part of the criminal justice system-which is the court system. Read David Simons' book "Homicide." In the city the author details, the conviction rates for capital crimes appears to be very low. I live in a small town in NJ. That town has drug sniffing dogs. For what ? They also received $100k for anti-terrorism measures. Huh? Law enforcement ( as a retired NYPD captain told me) is run like a business today.There are metrics that govern the apportionment of resources toward 'crime.' The managers (chiefs) like to get the biggest bang for the buck-so they can obtain more resources-from the state and Uncle Sam. The whole machine is self-perpetuating. In about 1980, NY State made an 'industry' out of drunk driving. They changed the law, funded additional enforcement, stiffened sentencing-and the money came flowing in. The cops and the court system all received a 'kickback' for each conviction from the state. Terrorism seems to be the flavor of the day. There appears to be a unlimited supply of money for 'anti-terrorist' measures. Guess what-the attempts to make us 'safe' are all politically motivated and pure bullshit. Fact is-law enforcement views property crimes as minor. The fault should be placed at the foot of the court system-which prefers to play 'lets make a deal.' An arrest without a conviction is meaningless. |
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| Author: | John Bohon [ Tue May 09, 2006 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beware Scrap Metal Thieves |
I agree that part of the problem is the justice system. In March a contractor working for us had a rail saw stolen while the crew was at the job site. The detectives promptly found the theifs but they had already managed to hide the saw. After being arrested the perpatrators were taken before the magistrate. The contractor who was also there was told point blank by the magistrate that the theft of a couple of thousand dollars was not worth the trouble of wasting the time of the overburden county courts. This was a matter for his insurance to pay off on and he then turned the theifs loose. Needless to say we saw them driving around the job site all the rest of the day just to rub things in a little. In the same county an officer caught a guy with the metal in his hands and put him in handcuffs. The other guy got away on foot. The A&R rep on site was suspicious when the officer and theif were talking to each other on a first name basis. The officer later refused to press charges. The problem with ATV riders on the track is just as bad. The one and only time I caught one of these idiots riding in the middle of the track and called the police the deputy arrived and could not see anything wrong with what the rider was doing. He said the railroad was public property and that the trains ran slow so there was no problem. When I pointed to the track damage ATV riders were doing he said we should consider that normal maintaince. Before I could press the matter further he told the rider to be on his way and he rode off down the middle of the track. Finally understanding what the cop was telling me I ask him if he was telling me he just didn't think this was matter worth wasting his time on. He said "Now you get the picture.". Frankly I have little use for either law enforcement or the judicial system. Occasionally I come accross someone who is really trying to make a difference but it is obvious they are beating their heads against a wall. Even if they get someone to court the case is delayed 15 times until everyone throws up their hands and walks away. This is the way we find things in North and South Carolina. Grade crossing accident and people destroying crossing signal equipment, particularly gates, is another nightmare. Hopefully most preservation groups have better luck in such matters than common carriers. It seems that no matter what a railroad does we are wrong in the eyes of the law. John Bohon |
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| Author: | NH0401 [ Tue May 09, 2006 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beware Scrap Metal Thieves |
The local police in North Jersey were no different than the regular civilians when it came to the whole 'railroad thing'-clueless. One of them actually tried to ticket the train crew for blocking the county road while switching the branch that ran behind my house. This occured Monday morning- 1 AM. The complainant actually called from inside their auto while sitting at the lowered gates. On Sunday night, there would be a parade of ATV's down my street, onto the branch which led to back to the main, which happened paralled the Interstate. For months, I was puzzled as just what they were up to. Eventually, I noticed there was a clearing next to the highway where the ATV guys would screw around.The railroad was their path through the woods. I called the local PD and they were thorougly uninterested in doing antyhing about it. So, I called the regional who owned the branch and spoke to the railroad police. They were much more interested in pursuing the matter. From what I gather, the railroad cop caught the jerks red-handed one night and he was able to compel the local cops to arrest them. I then understood why railroads had their own police forces. Dave |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu May 11, 2006 11:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beware Scrap Metal Thieves |
From yesterday's Sunbury (Pa.) Daily Item. Be advised that the area mentioned is forty miles of ex-PRR main line (Watsontown to Millersburg). Millersburg man arrested in attempted copper theft May 10, 2006 SUNBURY - City police have arrested a Millersburg man they believe was one of two men who tried to steal copper wire from railroad signal wires in the area of South Second Street on Sunday night. A car belonging to David A. Hoover, 36, of Millersburg, was found along Route 147 near the spot on the Norfolk Southern railroad line where the two men were seen climbing a utility pole and clipping wires. Police said the thieves were trying to get the wire because of the rising price of copper. Earlier this week, Sunbury police said Norfolk Southern police have reported similar incidents from Watsontown to Millersburg. When first approached by police, Mr. Hoover reportedly told them his car had been stolen. Police said they obtained a warrant to search his residence and found evidence. After the search, "Mr. Hoover then admitted to officers that he had comitted the theft of the copper wire," police said in a written statement. Police said Mr. Hoover faces charges of theft, receiving stolen property, making a false report, defiant trespass and criminal trespassing. |
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| Author: | Jack A. Siffert [ Thu May 11, 2006 9:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beware Scrap Metal Thieves |
Justice? Wasn't it 2 or 3 years ago in or around Akron some guy got zapped Dead stealing signal wire? We aren't gonna talk about the missing mile of rail that's been draging through the court system for going on 9 months and the guy is still running around free. We also won't talk about the guy that got caught red handed stealing tie plates (over 5,000 of 7,000) that got community service in the next county for a whole 12 hours. The only good thing was it was easy for the sheriff to arrest him, He only made it 500 foot down the road when he found his 4 tires flat. Something about tie plates with spikes sticking out of them in his tires. Very easy to hide in knee deep grass on the road.(our road, not a public road) Catching him worked out perfect, the court system sure let us down. |
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