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SS NOBSKA - Do not attempt this without help....
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Author:  mxdata [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  SS NOBSKA - Do not attempt this without help....
Here is a link to a nostalgia article on the engine from the SS NOBSKA that was published by the New Bedford Standard Times way back in 1996. A great southern Massachusetts human interest piece, I was impressed by the inclusion of so many politically correct ingredients in the story mix. Of course the engine ended up in a warehouse In Fall River Massachusetts and most of the young people in the photos probably graduated almost a decade ago. That "Federal Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act" mentioned in the article must have been a really fascinating piece of work.

http://www.s-t.com/daily/12-96/12-01-96/m05lo180.htm

MX (not my real name)
Author:  wesp [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SS NOBSKA - Do not attempt this without help....
NOBSKA is being scrapped even as we speak.

Wesley
Author:  softwerkslex [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SS NOBSKA - Do not attempt this without help....
Ten years ago, according to the article, they knew the work would cost $9.5 million. They had $3 million from the government, and expected to raise the balance "through fundraising". That's a lot of chocolate bars and Tombstone pizza sold door to door!
Author:  mxdata [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SS NOBSKA - Do not attempt this without enough money....
The website (Showing last updated March 6th 2006) is an interesting read:

http://www.nobska.org/

And fascinating to compare with the Vineyard Gazette Article:

http://www.mvgazette.com/news/2006/06/0 ... nobska.php

Note in that article they are estimating that as much as TWICE the 9.5 million dollars might have been necessary to return her to service.

There were some reports that mentioned around $800,000 was needed to complete the welding on the hull to allow the ship to be floated out, clearing the drydock for the NPS. Remember that this ship ran for several decades to two islands that are largely populated with very rich people. A small house on Nantucket Island with any kind of a yard now sells in excess of two million dollars. It is pretty obvious that there was very little interest or support on the islands for this project. There was also probably very little money in New Bedford to support it, that city has lost out on the opportunity to host a number of marine displays over the years due to low public interest (Charles W. Morgan, USS Massachusetts, HMS Rose, etc.)

How curious that the New Bedford Standard-Times, which ran the piece about how the school students were contributing to the restoration of the ship, has been strangely silent during the final months leading up to the scrapping. I don't recall anything at all on their website about the Nobska, it has been as if it never existed.
Author:  Mikechoochoo [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SS NOBSKA - Do not attempt this without enough money....
Hopefully the engine will go to an appropriate museum.
Author:  rev66vette [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SS NOBSKA - Do not attempt this without help....
Is it correct to assume that the end result of this endeavor is that three million dollars went nowhere??
Author:  Ted Miles [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SS NOBSKA - Her engine
Yes, Indeed I hope her engine will hopefully go to a good place.

It is a four cylinder quadriple expansion steam engine.

As far as I know there are only two others in North America. The engine in the USS Texas preserved in Housten, Texas

And the SS Keewatin preserved in Douglas, Michigan. She is a former CPR
Great Lakes passenger steamer.

maybe James Hafner knows of others?


Ted Miles
Author:  Stephen Hussar [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SS NOBSKA - Her engine
Link is to the NESF's page detailing the Nobska's engine.
http://www.nobska.org/educ/a2.htm

What a shame it will be if this steamer gets cut up.
Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SS NOBSKA - Her engine
Ted Miles wrote:
Yes, Indeed I hope her engine will hopefully go to a good place.

It is a four cylinder quadriple expansion steam engine.

As far as I know there are only two others in North America. The engine in the USS Texas preserved in Housten, Texas

And the SS Keewatin preserved in Douglas, Michigan. She is a former CPR
Great Lakes passenger steamer.

maybe James Hafner knows of others?


Ted Miles


There's also the engine recently salvaged from the CNJ ferry Elizabeth, now at the Independence Seaport Museum; and another from an unknown CNR ferry at the Atchelitz Thresherman Assoc., W. of Chilliwack, BC, Canada.

Image

Was the engine from the State of Pennsylvania; derelict in the Christina River at the foot of Madison Street, Wilmington, DE rescued; or was/will it be scrapped along with the rest of the boat?

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project
Author:  mxdata [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  SS NOBSKA - Where did the $3 million go?
(responding to the earlier posting by rev66vette) Well, the money all went SOMEWHERE. There are three partially restored lifeboats (aluminum, not wood, so probably not original) and a disassembled steam engine left to show for it. Some of it went into the plating for the hull, which was scheduled to be cut up this week and next.

One must wonder what sort of estimating talent they had working on this job. If I remember right, the CHESSIE and the SEABOARD, the last railroad tugboats built in the US (1983 and 1984) cost almost $6 million each. They were a bit more than a hundred feet long. The NOBSKA was a gutted two hundred foot coastal steamer missing its boilers and lots of other stuff following use as a restaurant and years of neglect, and $3 million was going to make a dent in that?
Author:  tomgears [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SS NOBSKA - Her engine
As far as I know everything from the State of Pennsylvania was scrapped. They are removing some below water level ship parts right now but I think they might be from a sunken barge as the location of the work is a little upriver from her last resting place.
Author:  rev66vette [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SS NOBSKA - Where did the $3 million go?
MX ( not my real name):

Thank you for your response to a question which seemingly had the "plague" affixed to it.

Sad story, and I agree that the initial assessment of financial realities of this effort were severely underestimated.

Hope the story involving the engine has a happier ending.
Author:  mxdata [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SS NOBSKA - Where did the $3 million go? (continued)
I will take the discussion one step further (sawing off the limb in back of me as I go) and try to answer a very good question that a friend asked recently:

"What would it have cost to build a REPLICA of the NOBSKA (using modern construction techniques) and put the old engine in it, compared with restoring the original?"

Well, if you take a look at some of the articles quoted in the previous discussion, they say the restoration of the NOBSKA needed at least $9.5 million to start with, and by now that might have increased to over $20 million.

In comparison, the EAGLE, a larger and heavier twin screw diesel powered ship built by the Steamship Authority in the late 1980s (around the time the NOBSKA restoration was starting) originally cost less than $10 million. That included two new EMD 12-645E6A propulsion engines with reverse reduction gears. By now the cost to build the EAGLE probably would have doubled too.

So it looks like the cost of a REPLICA (using the original steam engine) might not have been too much different from the cost of restoration of the 1926 vessel. Of course the construction techniques have changed a lot and there would have to be some alterations in the design to allow for that, but a replica would have the major advantage of being new plates over new frames rather than new plates welded over 1926 construction. A new vessel would be designed for the current regulatory environment rather than having to be modified to comply, and you would not be faced with removing all the nasty environmentally hazardous old materials along the way.

MX (not my real name)
Author:  Stephen Hussar [ Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SS NOBSKA - Wood vs. Steel replicas
Photo is of the 7 yr old wooden reproduction vessel "Friendship of Salem" purported to have cost $7 million.

Image
Author:  softwerkslex [ Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SS NOBSKA - Her engine
Please note that 4 cylinders is not the same as quadruple expansion. On many engines the 3rd, low pressure cylinder was split into two duplicate cylinders to reduce the weight of the reciprocating mass, improve balance, and improve torque by allowing more crank angles. This was a triple expansion engine with the low pressure steam piped to two low pressure cylinders. The Nobska is/was a 4 cylinder triple expansion engine.

Some engines did actually have a quadruple expansion engine. The Milwaukee Clipper lake steamer has a quadruple expansion engine. The quadruple engine only attains a tiny additional efficiency. At the 4th cylinder the steam is more like locker room air, and the power produced is wholly dependent on a quality vacuum.
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