Does anyone know what year asbestos started to be used for insulation on passenger cars, cabooses, etc.? And what was used for insulation prior to its use? Also, was it furnished by just one company in the beginning?

Thanks.

Les

Horse hair, wool, and cork were all early insulators.

I know asbestos was popular in the early 1950s as a fire-retardant component in house shingles and other building materials. In fact, there was an asbestos manufacturing plant in a neighborhood in which I lived in the late 1950s. It was located near the Western Maryland Railway crossing with the old Baltimore Transit Company's #15 streetcar line. A fairly dense residential area. -- Ray

Different uses. Asbestos was used where a high temperature or fireproof insulation was needed; horse hair, wool, cork, and wood shavings will all burn at elevated temperatures.

The actual use of asbestos in locomotive lagging isn't as an insulator, but as a reinforcement for the magnesia block, to keep the blocks from crumbling. That's the same use it was put to in many other products; asphalt shingles, vinyl floor tile, simply because it was cheap.

As to first use, it predates both steam locomotives and railroads altogether. A quick Google search turns up the factoid that legend has it that Charlemagne had an asbestos table cloth, which he threw in the fire to clean. Probably useful when discussing hotly debated issues, too.

I have read the specifications for Santa Fe coaches, etc. in the 1920s and they were using horsehair insulation in the walls.

Asbestos was also used to make arc guards in electrical switching gear in stationary or streetcar use.

Some place here I have a copy of a Harriman Lines coach specs from 1910. Not this evening, but I may look at it to see if asbestos was used anyplace in the cars at that time.

Many post-war lightweight passenger cars that I am familiar with did not actually have asbestos insulation per se but had fiberglass insulation with an asbestos paper covering on one side. The asbestos paper side was typically applied away from the car sides (towards the interior). Later model (mid 50's to mid 60's) cars seem to have gotten away from the asbestos paper covering and just used straight fiberglass insulation.

Most of these cars also had an asphalt-based tar like material that was sprayed all over the inside surfaces of the completed carbody shell prior to installation of the insulation and the interior. This was for sound deadening and also to keep condensation from forming on the inside of the car shell. Typically a product called "Railway Insulmat" was used. I have heard that this product also contained some asbestos fibers, but I don't know this for sure.

I know our 1920 DL&W trailer coaches all have horse hair insulation in them. Found that out the hard way when welding up the vestibules..

The early RDC's had it all over. Seems like the early 50's is a good estimate.

A little off-topic but in the same vein, I recently spoke with my Uncle (in his late 70's) who told me an interesting story regarding this product. While he was attending college he worked part time for a company think he said it was " United As____s" in Paterson, NJ. They made insulation and other related products. He was an office clerk. Each morning he would literally have to "blow-off" the accumulated dust off his desk. He noted that the dust was everywhere. He worked there two or three summers.

He continued saying that in the 70's the government had obtained employee records and contacted him about being tested to see if he had any signs of "as_______osis". He recalled undergoing a battery breathing tests, etc, which turned up no signs or symptoms.

I also recall my father using it to insulate the steam pipes on our old home, probably around 1955. This was the later stuff that was basically incapsulated in itself, with like someone described earlier, being wrapped in an outer shell. I still recall him being amazed at how well it performed.

How times change.

The generic name for these asbestos cement board products is TRANSITE. A quick Google search turned up this:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Transite is a completely fireproof composite material made of 12-50% asbestos and cement, which was once frequently used for such purposes as furnace flues, and shingles, siding, and wallboard for areas where fire retardancy is particularly important. Because cutting, breaking, and machining transite releases carcinogenic asbestos fibers into the air, its use has fallen out of favor."

To that list I'll add drain tiles and water pipes. Searching on Transite will bring up all sorts of modern asbestos free substitutes, still know by the same name. Since the asbestos fibers are totally bound in the cement, I wouldn't think that well maintained Transite would be considered a hazard, unless it has deteriorated to the point that it has become friable, that is able to crumble and release fibers into the air.

After reading this, and knowing that Pullman / Osgood Bradley of Worcester, Ma used a product called Rock Wool to insulate the NE-5 Cabooses that NYNH&H, CGW, B&M and a few others purchased between 1941 & 1946. After checking the web, it turns out that this stuff was commercially available in the early 1800s. With a melting point in excess of 2000 degrees F.

Anyone know why asbestos was chosen over Rock or Slag wool in the Railroad builder industries? Namely for the use in Boiler Wrap and Blankets?

FYI: Rock wool is made from Basalt, Diabase and other minerals, and Slag Wool is made, obviosly, from Iron Ore Blast Furnace Slag.

Regards,

Rich Cizik

I believe that you will actually find that "Transite" was a brand name used by the Johns Manville Corporation. They were selling their "Transite" brand of Asbestos Cement (A.C.) water pipe until about 25 years ago. I believe that you will find all maner of products sold by J-M under the "Transite" brand name.

A.C. pipe was used from the 1940s to the early 1980s by the US water industry. It is safe essentially safe as a water pipe; the problems are the fly that occurs during the manufacturing and during field cutting of the pipe. Because of these and other reasons the product is no longer made by JM or other manufactures.

27+ years in the water industry.

Don't burn tarpaper from old RR cars. It may just turn white and and not burn. I've seen it with my own eyes!