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| B&O Museum Freight Car Scrapping--You Called? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20840 |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | B&O Museum Freight Car Scrapping--You Called? |
Folks, A while back several folks and I "went public" with the news that the B&O Museum was preparing to "de-accession" some duplicate/spare vintage freight cars. They were supposedly being "made available" to appropriate alternative venues such as other rail museums. They lacked interchange-able trucks/bearings, but some roller-bearing flats were available at hand if needed. Some of these cars are currently in the process of being scrapped. A semi-confirmed (translation: it all sounds right to me) list is below: B&O X-9728, 10,000 gallon diesel fuel tank car, built 1918 for Mexican Petroleum as MPLX 1094, to Pam-Am Oil, to Amoco, acquired by B&O for fuel storage at Glenwood, Pa., donated by CSX in 1994. B&O IB-9, ice breaker car converted from 1951-built N-41 offset twin hopper 828966 in 1964, renumbered to B&O 960608, then sold to B&P as #1021, traded to B&O Museum in 1994 for a modern C&O three bay hopper car [a sister car is still at the Museum at last report, minus its ice-breaker frame] B&O 360973: B&O class O-70 gondola, built at Dubois in 1964 from Bethlehem kit B&O 914959: heritage murky, might be former B&O class P-32 flatcar #9132, built 1956 at Dubois from Greenville kit, design based on 1941 AAR alternate standard 70-ton flat car UTLX 88009: Built 1957 by UTC in Whiting, Ind., first group of stub sill cars built by Union Tank car, car cleaned and painted by Union Tank Car Cleveland, Texas shop for museum donation in 1997. B&O 951112MW: class N-43a PS-2 two bay covered hopper built 1955, converted to sand service as B&O DS-30, later to B&O 951112MW in 1982, donated by CSX in 1994 B&O 912508MW: converted to Burro Crane boom car, B&O X-4002, unknown class, looks like a Greenville 1941 AAR alternate standard 70-ton flat car. Penn Central 445439: built 1960 by ACF, PRR class H39 70 ton hopper Cambria and Indiana 343: built 1957 by Bethlehem Steel, twin bay offset side 70 ton hopper, last in service at Bethlehem Sparrows Point steel mill, donated by Bethlehem in 1997 I had several parties on this forum (and elsewhere) contact me for more information on what was available when I first put out word of the possible availability. A t that time, I was not even given a list this detailed; I had to go only on vague "what's on that track" insinuations. Since I was not (and am not) affiliated with the B&O Museum and could not represent them in any capacity (but was able to do so on other pieces no longer owned by the Museum at that point), I told the various parties to contact the B&O Museum for further information conducive to making a decision or offer. I also submitted a few photos to some folk, although I don't remember what went to whom anymore. If you contacted, or attempted to contacted, the B&O Railroad Museum regarding any of these cars, I want to hear about your experience--OFF-forum via personal e-mail. I'm hearing several conflicting reports about and from parties that supposedly expressed an interest but were not successful, and I want to hear just where things went wrong, if indeed they did go wrong. Whatever your story--you never got an answer or returned call, you couldn't find the money to move fast enough, they weren't what you could use, etc.--I want to hear it. Be advised that this is not an attempt to find fault with the B&O Museum, if any fault exists. It's an attempt to discover any failings withing the network with which we as preservationists make such offerings known (such as this forum here). I have a suspicion I know what at least one of those possible problems was. Meanwhile, as I type the Museum's former big C&O Vanderbilt tender is sitting on a side track in CSX's Riverside Yard, right beside/under I-95, awaiting eventual transfer to a new home (the reporting marks, if I am to believe them, seem to indicate a Virginia destination). |
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| Author: | Howard P. [ Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: B&O Museum Freight Car Scrapping--You Called? |
OK, here's what happened from my end (RMNE): The twin hopper/ice breaker car was of real interest to us at RMNE, as it fills a glaring hole in our freight car collection. Double-pocket 50-ton hoppers were once as common as dirt, and are now as rare as operating streamlined steam locomotives. They brought zillions of tons of coal into New England for decades, and they've all vanished (yes, North Conway has a B&O 50-tonner). Sandy provided some solid groundwork for contacts at the B&O museum, along with some digi-fotos of the cars. But, too much to do back at home base (we were in the middle of trucking 9 freight cars from Essex to Waterbury, along with springtime track work, restoration shop project, etc.), no funds available for a truck move of that distance (and no desire to spend megabucks strapping it to a flatcar and complying with AAR loading rules, and dealing with the freight railroads on rates, routes, etc.), led to the decision to step back and heed my grandmother's advice about one's eyes being bigger than one's stomach. Simply put, the effort and hassle and therefore the expense involved in moving this stuff means that a lot of it is going to become razor blades, and not just the stuff at the back lot in Mt. Clare. I have no doubt that the B&O museum folks would have responded favorably to us, had we had the resources (money, manpower, truckers) to get the car loaded and out in a timely fashion. I don't think the average visitor will really mind that our two hopper cars (one already nicely-restored) are PRR H-39s rather than B&O or RDG or DL&W 50-tonners; they're still "black coal cars" and do the job of interpreting that part of the railroad biz just fine. By the way, RMNE has offered surplus equipment on this forum in the past; response has been minimal. I think most groups that might have an interest in a given item find that just getting it home may prove to be insurmountable (or simply too damn expensive). Howard P. The resident freight car freak at RMNE |
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| Author: | Scott Kwiatkowski [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: B&O Museum Freight Car Scrapping--You Called? |
Howard, I know how you feel. I too am fond of freight equipment. I just wonder if there was an easier way for groups to let other groups or individuals know about surplus equipment. The classified section of RYPN is a great start. However, I think organization are leery about putting a piece of equipment out in the open because it have been my experience as a private car owner that one of the main obstacles I had to overcome is just getting an organization to take you seriously. I know I am crazy, I just don’t want them to know that!! Moving freight cars is expensive with a lot of little details. A recent post touched on this topic and private ownership is probable one of the ways to save some of this stuff before it is all gone. Unfortunately, there is no easy answer. Scott Pssst, Sandy do you think they cut that PRR hopper yet? |
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| Author: | robertjohndavis [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | 2 bay hoppers in preservation |
The typical A-coal twin hopper is truly one of the least-preserved cars if you compare their in-service numbers to the few left today. They are rare enough that I track down any report of one. The good news is that of the 4 major stashes of them in PA in the early 1990's, Steamtown and the Reading tech got a bunch before the rest met the torch. There's still a cutdown 2 bay up in Sayre, too. I also am pretty confident of a few cars buried in culm and would not be shocked to have some more discovered during mine reclaimation... The RRMofPA has a very nice LNE offset side car, and we can only hope another 2 bay will come to light to join it, maybe a CRP? One can hope. One of the issues is that there are no groups set up to preserve anthracite frieght cars in general in the manner that RMNE does. Luckily, RRMofPA, RDG tech and Steamtown stepped up when the pickings were good, but one of the hardest things to do right now is to find a home for an anthracite freight car other than RDG. Rob |
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| Author: | robertjohndavis [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: B&O Museum Freight Car Scrapping--You Called? |
First a note on my last post, I was not insinuating the B+O or C+I cars were A-coal cars. About the Union Tank... Seems to me that if a company takes the time to restore one of their crs for preservation, and the thanks they get is that it sits in a yard and is scrapped, that hurts the chances of anything like that being done again. As far as the preservation community goes, that's a potential black eye, no? |
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| Author: | Mr. Ed [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: B&O Museum Freight Car Scrapping--You Called? |
Free is alwas good but freight costs to move any car from point "A" to point "B" is the deal killer. And with more museums cutting their inventory, or in the case of the now defunct musuem site in Phillipsburg NJ, there is plenty of antique equipment out there for the taking. But again, freight puts a wet blanket on any free rolling stock deals. Having an active rail to your facility makes it a bit easier but without such an arrangement, the only people getting rich are the freight haulers. Unless of course you are a non-profit and can find a hauler that is having a great year and needs a write-off for taxes! Later! Mr. Ed |
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| Author: | Dave [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: B&O Museum Freight Car Scrapping--You Called? |
And once you have paid the relative pittance it takes to move it, then the real expense begins - restoration / conservation, followed by housing and preservation. dave |
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| Author: | Stephen S. Syfrett [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: B&O Museum Freight Car Scrapping--You Called? |
Sandy, I contacted you regarding the covered hoppers and you sent some photos that showed a line of equipment I presume is that listed in your original post. I recall seeing an old tank car (probably the 1918 MPLX tank) and the ice breaker hopper along with several flats, gons and boxcars. Were the covered hoppers actually acquired and moved off-site or are they going to be scrapped also? The 1957 UTLX 88009 tank car...what is the status as of today, and is there any prospect of contacting the B&O folks about it at this time? The 1918 tank car would have been a desirable addition, but I see no way we could move it. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: B&O Museum Freight Car Scrapping--You Called? |
As far as I know, both tank cars are in small pieces now. There WAS a way to move said car--you would have had to buy and inspect one of three MTTX 60-foot flat cars with roller bearings that were nearby, loaded the tank and trucks on the flat, and sent it to Savannah, then sold off the flat when it arrived. Not impossible, but not easy either. As far as contacting the B&O Museum: That's purportedly what this whole thread pertains to. If a museum says, "if you're interested in this stuff, contact us", and someone does, and no one picks up the phone/answers the letter/answers the e-mail, well, why bother even offering in the first place and getting people's hopes up? (Note: I didn't say that's what happened, did I?) The 1960s-vintage covered hoppers, LAST I LOOKED, had not been touched yet, BUT were next in line. IF you're interested in either a 1964 Domino Sugar covered hopper or a bastardized 1960s pressure-discharge covered hopper, get back to me, and I can speed-dial someone with the authority to stop the scrappers in their tracks. |
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