At Arkville, NY recently:

http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?pho ... and_Ulster

I would think this would be an ideal locomotive for a small (branchline) tourist railroad.

Some operations with similar locomotives--for example, the Wanamaker, Kempton & Southern--have used them successfully for years (and in the case of the WK&S, decades). Others, such as the Wilmington & Western and its ex-Navy #3, have found them hard on the track and/or underpowered. There's also the economic debate as to whether the passenger gains from a steam locomotive are worth the added expense, when compared with the more mundane diesel switcher or the light capacity. The B&O Museum, as an example, seems to be quite content with its SW and air-conditioned stainless fleet, and seems to be in no hurry to go back to St. Elizabeth's #4 (also somewhat similar to #14) and the open cars.

From my experience, some visitors, more than you'd expect, will watch a steam locomotive blow down, the fireman shovel coal or rake ash, and swear that the engine is diesel powered, but those skeptics are not the majority.

BEDT 16 was the last operable steam switcher in the Greater NYC area. She ran for a short period on the BR&W.
BEDT 12 is at the Gulf Coast Rail Road Museum, Florida
BEDT 13 at RR Mus of Penna.
BEDT 14 as discussed above
BEDT 15 at Strasburg as (gulp) "Thomas"
BEDT 16 at RMLI, off wheels and awaiting restoration.

No. 14 also operated a few times on the Maryland & Pennsylvania under the ownership of Rail Tours, Inc. in 1965. I am told that firing with fuel oil could not provide steam fast enough to keep it going on the run to Yoe. Rail Tours was also responsible for fitting it with an air pump and air brakes, something it never had on the BEDT.

BEDT 16 never left the Isle of Long since it's arrival in Brooklyn many years ago. 16 is the one that sat "abandoned" at the last BEDT brooklyn terminal for years before going to RMLI not long ago.

I pretty sure the BEDT engine at BR&W was George Hart's #14.

Interesting coincidence that the 14 and 148, two one-time Black River engines, show up on RYPN a the same time. I was an early volunteer at BR&W, but the 14 made it's last run the year before I started. The late Sam Freeman, at the time BR&W's General Manager and 148's owner, told me that in addition to boiler capacity issues, the axle bearings ran hot. The first few trips were OK, but by the the third, fourth and fifth trip they were dangerously hot.

Each round trip was ten miles, every hour and a half. The locomotive was ideal for pulling a handful of cars off a float, sitting a few minutes while the switch is thrown, and shoving the cars on to a yard track. Road service, even with the two or three wooden coaches BR&W was using at the time, was a bit of a stretch. The engine also rode rough, trying to keep the schedule.

One neat thing about the BEDT steamers is that they were set up for one man operation. The oil throttle, atomizer and blower were all on the engineer's side. There was plenty of room, as there were no air brake valves in the way. When air brakes got added over at MPA, the firing controls got moved over to the fireman's side.

I'm sorry I never saw the engine in steam, but it was obviously not the right engine for that kind of service. 60 and 148 were much more appropriate for use at Black River.

Ron Ziel owned #12, but kept it stored in the Jersey Meadows yard, with very little maintainence. George Foster, who co-authored two books with Ziel, purchased #16, but never moved it off the BEDT property. Both men aspired to create the "Sag Harbor and Scuttle Hole Rail Road" in eastern Long Island, rebuilding the old Sag Harbor branch of the LIRR, which had been abandoned in the 30's. At the time, rebuilding the railbed was possible. Sadly, the railroad never got beyond the acquisition of a Pennsy Parlor car, an ex-NYC wooden caboose, a promised CNJ observation car, andthe two locomotives.
Eventually, Ziel's Porter tank loco was sold, passing through several hands until it wound up where it is today. Foster's #16 eventually wound up at the RMLI, in Riverhead, where it sits off it's drivers.
While #14 was on the BR&W, it was painted green and grey, and looked pretty sharp, too! According to sales documentation from BEDT company, #14 was the last serviced with remaining boiler time on her.

This is the common "steam jam" brake arrangement, also used on logging lines that didn't use train brakes. It makes sense when trains are short, speeds slow, and the cars aren't going very far; if you're not going to use the air brakes on the cars, why bother to maintain air compressors at all?

I'm sure that switching was handled the same way it was, and still is, done on the class ones; the brake bleed valves are pulled on the cars, which drains the air system completely. Now the brakes are totally inoperative, so are no longer an issue. The hand brakes are, of course, still operational.

That begs the question, what are you going to do for train brakes? I know of one group in northern Illinois that operates a tiny Hiesler w/o air brakes (Stephenson County) but they've taken great pains to make themselves insular, so as not to come under FRA jurisdiction. You guys seem to have a connection to the general rail system, so that tactic won't work for you.

I have seen (and worked on) conversions from steam jam to straight air on industrial steam locomotives before - it is probable that the steam cylinders will need to be replaced with air cylinders to get comparable braking force given diameter and pressure differences, but shoving the same beams and rods will probably do just fine. 6ET would make a good historically appropriate retrofit air system, as would K14, but a lot of guys prefer a more modern system with consumable parts available off the shelf. I'd be careful about rubber components possibly deteriorating in the presence of good air oils for steam compressors, such as Estrolene, whichever system goes in. One little O-ring or gasket softens and deforms and your whole day gets ruined.

A couple phone calls to Bernie and PAB should solve the majority of the problems, and provide the majority of the parts.

dave

Phil and everyone,

WOW! Thanks for all of the information. What a great thread.

I have spoken with Mr. Bell by telephone.

Mr. Bell is correct, and neither the Railroad Museum of PA or himself personally endorses any special event, inclusive of a reunion of BEDT engines.

I myself, understand completely the chain of command that needs to be followed in matters such as these, especially concerning a State Museum of such professionalism and prestige.

I will make this clear: for Mr. Bell, neither he nor the Railroad Museum of PA has become involved, nor has started any chain of events. It was merely a suggestion / idea / hypothesis.

If I did not make this clear in my post, then I apologize to all parties involved.

Many thanks to all and once again, my sincerest apologies for any in conveniences caused.

Philip M. Goldstein