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FEC 148
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20941		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  bobyar2001 [ Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  FEC 148
Here in 2005 in Colorado, a long way from its Florida origins:

http://www.ngdiscussion.net/cgi-bin/NGD ... read=75704
Author:  gmray [ Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FEC 148
Not a concern but a question. Is that a reinforced lap seam on the 1st and 2nd courses of the 148?
Author:  Mgoldman [ Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FEC 148
Due to the inescapable purist in me -
How much harder would it have been to restore an engine more "at home" to the area?

It appears the Florida East Coast is getting quite a rebuild.
(Folks in Florida sure could use some steam!).

Was it simply a matter of the engine being available?
Was it simply siginficantly cheaper and viable to use this specific engine?

What is the history of the engine after being retired by FEC?
Author:  jwallis [ Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FEC 148
Other contributors to this forum are probably more familiar with this locomotive than me, but I do believe this engine was owned by Sam Freeman? in the 1960s, and ran numerous excursions in New Jersey. It later went to Michigan for a tourist operation that never panned out before going to Colorado. Others can fill in the blanks here.

Speaking of Florida steam, how is FEC 253 coming along? Where are they going to run an 0-8-0?
Author:  Howard P. [ Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FEC 148
148
Author:  Howard P. [ Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FEC 148
Sam Freeman (long associated with Black River & Western) bought 148 from US Sugar Co (Clewiston, Fla) in 1969 and had it moved to BR&W in New Jersey. 148 first operated in NJ in 1970; it ran in 1971 and early 72 at BR&W. About that time, Sam and the BR&W had a "parting of the ways", and the engine (and Sam) moved to a new operation on the Morristown & Erie called "Whippany Toonerville" (insert -cringe- here), although Sam insisted on the engine carrying Whippany River on the tender. In 1974, it was shipped to New Hope for a rebuild by Frank Menair (who was sort of Sam's personal steam loco mechanic). New driver tires came from Germany (the old ones were woefully thin), and the shoes and wedges were made from a "modern miracle material" Nylatron. A lot of flexible staybolts and sleeves were welded on, too. It was finished in 1975, and went back to M&E.

In Sept 1975, 148 pulled 4 Erie Stilwell coaches on shuttle trips over the 4-track Erie mainline for "Ridgewood Railroad Days".

In October 1975, 148 and CPR 972 (George Hart) doubled headed over the Lehigh Valley from Bethlehem to S. Plainfield, NJ and return for a Main Line Steam Foundation (the operating group) trip. 148 also ran the NY&LB in early Dec 1975 for MLSF (with NBC's Tom Snyder interviewing E.M. Frimbo on board)-- 972 had been pulled off at the last minute. 148 took 9 CNJ coaches up Middletown Hill at 40 mph, unassisted. 148 went back to Whippany and ran the 1976 season there, and possibly the 1977 season too (my memory is a bit fuzzy now).

Sam Freeman had gotten involved with the original Adirondack Railroad of 1980 Winter Olympic fame (Frank Menair was also involved with ADK Ry). About that time, Sam sent 148 to a boiler company in Springfield, MA for more work, and the engine was still there in 1982 or so when Sam died. His estate (through Ross Rowland) arranged the donation of 148 to the Connecticut Valley Railroad Museum (RMNE's orginal name) at Essex, CT, with the intent of 148 operating on the Valley RR. 148 arrived at Essex about 1983, and some paid contract work was done before VRR set 148 aside. CVRM/RMNE had a noted mechanical engineer (with significant steam loco knowledge) do a detailed survey of 148, and the determination was that 148 needed a large amount of boiler work and the tender needed a full rebuild. CVRM/RMNE decided to sell 148 and she was sold to Doug Brown of Michigan in the fall of 1988.

Howard P.
(who worked on 148 on the MLSF trips, among other "encounters" with the old girl)
Author:  jwallis [ Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FEC 148
Noe that you've brought 972 into this, what is the current status of this locomotive? I remember seeing the cab sitting outside the shop at Strasburg whenever I went there in the late 80s early 90s.
Author:  Heavenrich [ Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FEC 148
It spent quite a bit of time in Travese City, Michigan and was kept inside until being moved about a year ago.

Bob H
Author:  ctjacks [ Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FEC 148
The group in Traverse City evidently had as a funding source a doctor in Colorado. They did ultrasound work on the boiler (judging from the markings on the boiler) and had a crew working on the engine for many years but I don't know if they ever did any more work on it than that. The Traverse City group was also affiliated with a local individual with a less-than-stellar reputation and had absolutely no support from the RR they were hosted on. So, I don't think this was ever a very likely operation.

Chris .
Author:  Mgoldman [ Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FEC 148
Thanks Howard - all knowing one.
Fascinating.

Regarding the 972, last I saw her was just prior to Reading and Northern taking control of (a) train in Jim Thorpe on a slightly different route via diesel. Proably no more then 2 years ago, the engine was sitting by the turntable pit and it had shiney chome nuts by the fire box. Looked odd so shiney and silver, but definately recent work.

Not sure the status now - of the 972 or even Hart's operation.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  CP 972 or 1098?
MGoldman, are you confusing CP 972 (which last I saw years ago had been behind Strasburg's shop long enough to earn its own "DON'T ASK WHEN!!" chalkings on its sides) with sister 1098? I think 1098 is the one that was at Jim Thorpe until recently.
Author:  Jim Robinson [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CP 972 or 1098?
Mitch, Sandy is correct. It's CPR 4-6-0 1098 that you saw at Jim Thorpe. George Hart acquired it from Steamtown USA prior to the Steamtown collection becoming part of the NPS. 972 last operated at Jim Thorpe in 1986 and has been at Strasburg since then.

Sam Freeman's 4-6-2 148 made its maiden run on the BR&W in April 1971. She looked really fine, all shined up and all. 148 ran on the BR&W during '71, '72, and '73. During the mid '70's the BR&W ran 2 trains on Summer Sundays--"Strasburg style"--with 45 minute departures from Ringoes and Flemington. The 2 trains would meet and pass each other on the siding just north of the Copper Hill trestle. I believe this 2 train operation started in '72 with the 2nd train diesel hauled. However in '73 both were run behind steam, 2-8-0 60 on the 1st train and 148 on the 2nd. Big time railroading on the Black River! As Howard said Freeman parted ways with the BR&W after that, taking 148 with him.

Despite the name, the Morristown & Erie's "Whippany Toonerville RR" was a fairly classy tourist operation. 148 looked even better with a graphite smokebox and trailed a matched set of tuscan red-painted ex-CNJ steel coaches that made for a nice looking train. Throw in the field stone Whippany passenger station and water tower and things looked pretty good. The train ran west to Morristown and return. The scenery wasn't exactly the Silverton Train, but 148 chugged pretty good on the grade. The M&E had some management woes at the time and the Toonerville operation ceased in 1977. The last time I saw 148 under steam was on Labor Day 1977.

I wish 148's new owner well and it will be great to see her running again. These FEC Light Pacifics are beautiful machines. "Centuries ago", as a kid, my first steam locomotive cab ride was on sister engine 113 in FL.

Regards
Jim Robinson
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Did 1098 move? Re: CP 972 or 1098?
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
MGoldman, are you confusing CP 972 (which last I saw years ago had been behind Strasburg's shop long enough to earn its own "DON'T ASK WHEN!!" chalkings on its sides) with sister 1098? I think 1098 is the one that was at Jim Thorpe until recently.


Unless you know a secret, #1098 is still at JT.
Author:  rev66vette [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FEC 148
I do believe that this locomotive was for on the sale list in several trade magazines (re: Barnhardt) for quite some time.
Author:  jasonsobczynski [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FEC 148
Mr Ray.....Greetings from sunny Arizona.

In regards to your question about the 1st and 2nd course, the "First course" seam visible in the photo is actually nothing more than x-number of inches of the first course extending past the fluesheet to meet the smoke box. As to why Alco felt the need to have such a but joint for a none pressure portion of the boiler is something I have pondered in the past several times. Maybe you could develop a theory? As for the remainder of the seam in the first course, it is as well a butt seam. Overall an odd arangment I have always thought.
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