Hi to all
We have made another important discovery in Cheyenne recently but this time not a passenger car (phew). We have discovered 2 of the first purpose built auto carriers ever produced, A-50-4Western Steel automobile carriers built for UP in 1914, they have the pockets for beams across the car and vehicles where carried at a 45 degree angle with their front axles hooked over the beams. They have end doors on one end only and were the first boxcars built with a corrugated end, but still had wooden side doors. If anyone is interested in acquiring one of these contact me off line.
they can be seen here
http://mikepannell254.fotopic.net/p62103839.html

Thanks Mike Pannell

You are really good at finding stuff. Let us know if you find Jimmy Hoffa!

Later!
Mr. Ed

We thought we saw Elvis in one of the sawn in half boxcars.....but it was just the Ark of the Covenant.

I think someone from IRM is already on the way to Cheyenne.....

:-)

Howard P.

We wondered if the IRM would be interested, the UP steam team are not allowed to take anything like that, so its available to someone else. Both have been cut around a bit but with steel cars thats not so drastic. I will upload more pictures soon, also on site are some UP all wooden boxcars and 2 C&S wooden cars converted from Ingoldsby dump cars.

see them here.

http://mikepannell254.fotopic.net/c1616093.html


Mike

Please... No... Enough junk already.

Anyway, there used to be several of these still on their trucks a lot closer, at Commonwealth Edison's Fisk Street generating plant on Chicago's near south side. I don't think IRM acquired any, but when John Scott was at the Henry Ford Museum, he talked them into bringing one to Dearborn... It seems they shipped Fords in them back in the day.

I would also dispute that these are the FIRST automobile cars, since there were automobile cars since even before there were automobiles; the type is directly descended from the oversize wagon and carriage cars of the last decades of the nineteenth century.

Guys,

An answer to this question might be found in John H. White's freight Cars book. his Passenger Cars book is well known; but he also did one about wooden freight cards.
as usual with his books you will need a team of horses to pull it home from the library!

Ted Miles

The posting read....Purpose built...... thus they are the first. Prior to that it was converted wooden boxcars. Interesting that you call it junk, do you work at the museum and if so why would this be junk?

Mike

I'm not the IRM, but I can give a general response:

Without a dedicated crew and funding source, they are junk until someone sincerely takes the responsibility and makes the personal initiative to save the damned things. There's no way (sans a massive movie project that needs old freight cars) to "profit" from these cars save for scrapping them, so any preservation imposes upon the owner or future owners the responsibility and obligation to preserve these things for as long as possible.

As much as I would love to see a car or two like this on a photo charter at the Nevada Northern, WMSR, etc. the best possibility for these cars probably remains either local preservation as part of a regional rail museum (Ogden? Salt Lake? Heber Valley?) or as an axillary exhibit at a small local rail depot or mill museum. Having said that, anything's possible--even Jay Leno wanting one for his car collection to show how vintage cars were shipped back in the day. Far be it from me to dissuade you from making good sales pitches to the best possible preservationists.

But no matter how hard we try, we can't save everything just because it's old.

Hi Mike,

Great find, but not even CLOSE on the "first purpose-built auto carriers ever produced." A quick search through my railroad diagram books turned up the following "purpose-built" auto boxcars:

B&O class M-13B, 190000-190299, ACF 1910 (source: 1911 diagrams)
Erie 96400-96699, ACF 1913 (source: 1913 diagrams)
Erie 96700-96999, ACF 1912 (sourse: 1913 diagrams)
GN 36000-36499, H&B 1912 (1917 diagrams)
GN 36500-36999, H&B 1913 (1917 diagrams)
L&N 43200-43299, Mt Vernon 1913 (1940 diagrams)
L&N 48300-48399, Mt Vernon 1913 (1940 diagrams)
Milwaukee 204800-204999, 1909 (1937 diagrams)
Milwaukee 205300-205799, 1910 (1937 diagrams)
MP 80000-80499, ACF 1912 (1936 diagrams)
NYC lot 213-B, 48000-48999, ACF 1906 (all below 1924 diagrams)
MC 214-B, 95500-95999, Pullman 1907
NYC 221-B, 228500-228999, Pullman 1907
NYC 229-B, 235000-235999, MDT 1909
NYC 236-B, 249000-249999, Std Stl 1910
MC 240-B, 89000-89999, ACF 1910
NYC 246-B, 236000-236999, ACF 1910
NYC 247-B, 250000-250999, B&S 1910
MC 248-B, 88000-88999, Pullman 1910
NYC 257-B, 251500-251999, ACF 1910
NYC 260-B, 237000-237999, MDT 1910
MC 280-B, 50600-51049, Pullman 1912
MC 286-B, 87000-87999, ACF 1912
MC 288-B, 51100-52099, Pullman 1912

That's at least 15,300 cars built before the A-50-4's. And this is only a quick look through a very erratic collection of diagram books, and I weeded out anything marked as furniture cars, modified furniture cars, double door plain boxes, and dual-use furniture/auto cars. I didn't even LOOK at the Pennsy's cars either; likely, add another 10,000 cars just from their fleet.

These UP cars MIGHT be considered the "first purpose-built, 50-foot, all-steel auto cars", but that's sort of splitting hairs pretty fine.

Fair point, but the first for UP then.

Mike

Again, MAYBE. The Harriman car class numbering system calls thses cars:

Automobile
50 foot
4th kind

You'd need a UP freight car expert to comment on if there really was an A-50-1, A-50-2 and A-50-3 on the UP at any point, and if they were originally built to ship autos.

Ain't research fun?

Well, I used to… until I got tired of beating my head against the wall, while all the organization's money went to constructing buildings to house all the "really old, neat historical artifacts" (otherwise known as junk) while the property continued to fill up with more of the same.

Someone else has already done a good job of debunking your claim of "first."

Somewhere I have Xerox copies of articles about these cars from the trade press of the day, also the slightly later cars equipped with a built in trolley hoist beam for loading engines. If you would send me a private message with your e-mail address, I'd be happy to dig them out and scan them for you.

Mike,

A couple of questions;

Do the steel cars have any of their underframe left? (ie could the be set back on trucks)

Is the property owner looking to get rid of the cars, or are they looking for money out of them?

Have the intact wood cars (especially the UP outfit car) been kept off the ground?

Is it possible to come look at the cars?

Thanks

Jason Midyette
Niwot CO

One of the steel cars has the bolsters cut off, not sure on the other one, the wooden cars are on the ground i think, although one of them is built into a house so it may be off the ground. call me on 307 221 2371 if you want further info. The owners has offered some or all of them to us at no charge.

Mike