Gents:

I have been volunteering in trying to preserve a regional collection of wooden passenger cars (8 in all, ranging from 1880 to 1910 construction dates). All of these cars require some degree of attention and a few require far more help.

Is there any source of infomation (beyond John White's excellent book) or training available for restoration of wood passenger cars. Does any museum provide training or expertise in such things (Mid-Continent?). I am in the midst of trying to develop a preservation assessment for the institution managing the cars but I know that I am seriously out of my depth in expertise about wood car construction, much less in being able to develop a plan to stabilize or restore any of these cars (aside from keeping the weather out of them).

Any and all replies are of extreme value. We (Western Montana Chapter, NRHS) has finished patching and tarping roofs on many of the cars, but much much more remains.

Thanks in advance.

Michael Seitz, Vice President

Western Montana Chapter, NRHS

mikefrommontana@juno.com

> Gents:

> I have been volunteering in trying to
> preserve a regional collection of wooden
> passenger cars (8 in all, ranging from 1880
> to 1910 construction dates). All of these
> cars require some degree of attention and a
> few require far more help.

> Is there any source of infomation (beyond
> John White's excellent book) or training
> available for restoration of wood passenger
> cars. Does any museum provide training or
> expertise in such things (Mid-Continent?). I
> am in the midst of trying to develop a
> preservation assessment for the institution
> managing the cars but I know that I am
> seriously out of my depth in expertise about
> wood car construction, much less in being
> able to develop a plan to stabilize or
> restore any of these cars (aside from
> keeping the weather out of them).

> Any and all replies are of extreme value. We
> (Western Montana Chapter, NRHS) has finished
> patching and tarping roofs on many of the
> cars, but much much more remains.

> Thanks in advance.

> Michael Seitz, Vice President

> Western Montana Chapter, NRHS

As a person who has spent 10 years on one wooden car, I will offer the following: eight wooden cars is a tremendous responsibility, really too much for one person. Please enlist your associates and make it a group effort. Secondly, take your time and really look at what you've got. The car will tell you what's going on if you let it. Take lots of pictures and save samples. Unless you're bound to a fully accurate restoration, don't feel that you have to duplicate the old materials and construction methods particularly where invisible. Products and methods have improved dramatically over the years. Also, your cars will, by standing still, meet environmental challenges that they never withstood in service. These include sun and weather on the same side without drying out from train motion. Some species of woods, not used in original construction, do better under these conditions.
Also, do everything you can to protect the cars by a structure, not cheap, I know, but worth it if you can do it.
Lastly, while I don't know of any formal training programs, the people here at this site have been a fantastic resource for me. Just ask and you always get an answer. Linn Moedinger at Strasburg has always been helpful too.



wrj494@aol.com

You might get in touch with Glenn Guerra, who works on contract restoration of wooden cars and is a recognized master. By all means get a hold of his series of articles "Working with Wood" which ran in the last year or two of Locomotive and Railway Preservation Magazine. You can buy the back issues from Pentrex; check their Web site at

http://www.pentrex.com/magazines-locomo ... ssues.html

I don't have a way to get a hold of Glenn but he worked recently at East Troy and a call there might turn up a phone number or email address.

eledbetter@mail.rypn.org

> Gents:

> I have been volunteering in trying to
> preserve a regional collection of wooden
> passenger cars (8 in all, ranging from 1880
> to 1910 construction dates). All of these
> cars require some degree of attention and a
> few require far more help.

> Is there any source of infomation (beyond
> John White's excellent book) or training
> available for restoration of wood passenger
> cars. Does any museum provide training or
> expertise in such things (Mid-Continent?). I
> am in the midst of trying to develop a
> preservation assessment for the institution
> managing the cars but I know that I am
> seriously out of my depth in expertise about
> wood car construction, much less in being
> able to develop a plan to stabilize or
> restore any of these cars (aside from
> keeping the weather out of them).

> Any and all replies are of extreme value. We
> (Western Montana Chapter, NRHS) has finished
> patching and tarping roofs on many of the
> cars, but much much more remains.

> Thanks in advance.

> Michael Seitz, Vice President

> Western Montana Chapter, NRHS

Several months ago there was a posting by Kent Haag who works for the Illinois Preservation Agency, which owns the Pullman factory museum site in Chicago. They are hoping to develop a school of some sort for historic restoration, evidently with emphasis on wooden passenger cars. I haven't heard anything about it since, though. You might try to contact him - this sounds just like what the preservation movement needs.

Would you be able to post a list of your cars, while you're at it? I'm always interested in what's out there. Thanks.

Randall Hicks

> Gents:

> I have been volunteering in trying to
> preserve a regional collection of wooden
> passenger cars (8 in all, ranging from 1880
> to 1910 construction dates). All of these
> cars require some degree of attention and a
> few require far more help.

> Is there any source of infomation (beyond
> John White's excellent book) or training
> available for restoration of wood passenger
> cars. Does any museum provide training or
> expertise in such things (Mid-Continent?). I
> am in the midst of trying to develop a
> preservation assessment for the institution
> managing the cars but I know that I am
> seriously out of my depth in expertise about
> wood car construction, much less in being
> able to develop a plan to stabilize or
> restore any of these cars (aside from
> keeping the weather out of them).

> Any and all replies are of extreme value. We
> (Western Montana Chapter, NRHS) has finished
> patching and tarping roofs on many of the
> cars, but much much more remains.

> Thanks in advance.

> Michael Seitz, Vice President

> Western Montana Chapter, NRHS

A couple of ideas include the Historical Museum at Fort Missoula which is working on a wooden trolley and has a member who has worked on an RR-sized wood interurban. See http://www.montana.com/ftmslamuseum/index.html

Also the Strasburg Rail Road here in PA maintains a fleet of wood passenger cars in excellent condition. The cars are stored outside and run back and forth every day, so the Strasburg shop has more practical experience than anybody.


Electric City Trolley Museum Associa

> Gents:

> I have been volunteering in trying to
> preserve a regional collection of wooden
> passenger cars (8 in all, ranging from 1880
> to 1910 construction dates). All of these
> cars require some degree of attention and a
> few require far more help.

> Is there any source of infomation (beyond
> John White's excellent book) or training
> available for restoration of wood passenger
> cars. Does any museum provide training or
> expertise in such things (Mid-Continent?). I
> am in the midst of trying to develop a
> preservation assessment for the institution
> managing the cars but I know that I am
> seriously out of my depth in expertise about
> wood car construction, much less in being
> able to develop a plan to stabilize or
> restore any of these cars (aside from
> keeping the weather out of them).

> Any and all replies are of extreme value. We
> (Western Montana Chapter, NRHS) has finished
> patching and tarping roofs on many of the
> cars, but much much more remains.

> Thanks in advance.

> Michael Seitz, Vice President

> Western Montana Chapter, NRHS

In addition to White's book, and the excellent L&RP articles mentioned in a previous post, I would reccomend William Voss' "Railway Car Construction" 1892, reprinted by Orange Empire Railway Museum. You can order by phone or mail by contacting the museum.

Also, I would encourage you to continue visiting other museums with wooden car collections, as there is always much to be gained from looking at similar equipment. As noted in another post, there are also some tourist railroads worth checking out, although the criteria applied for restoration are sometimes different from a museum's approach, owing to the nature of the operation. In either case, cars undergoing restoration provide a good look at construction techniques and other normally hidden details.


Railway Preservation Resources
jsmatlak@earthlink.net

> In addition to White's book, and the
> excellent L&RP articles mentioned in a
> previous post, I would reccomend William
> Voss' "Railway Car Construction"
> 1892, reprinted by Orange Empire Railway
> Museum. You can order by phone or mail by
> contacting the museum.

Contact information:
Orange Empire Railway Museum
PO Box 548
Perris CA 925-72-0548

office phone: (909) 943-3020
fax (909) 943-2676
recorded information (909) 657-2605

Sorry, no on-line information about OERM's store or reprints.

OERM web page
bnorden@gateway.net

Michael,

Glen Gurriea is working at North Freedom this summer and will be working at the Western Railway Museum next winter.

The traction museums are doing a lot of work in wooden cars. Seashore Trolley Museum has a year round paid staff in their restoration shop which works with a lot of wood and the related products that go with it.

Wood cars from the main line are an amazing example of craftmanship out of the past. Try to plan a visit to Mid-Continent. They have cars that go the full range from broken down work train status to fully restored elegance.

Not sure I have this name right but the ? Museum of Canadian Transportation in ?Cransbrook, British Columbia has restored some great woodwork in a collection of steel cars. Perhaps you might call them. Ted Miles

ted_miles@NPS.gov

> Gents:

> I have been volunteering in trying to
> preserve a regional collection of wooden
> passenger cars (8 in all, ranging from 1880
> to 1910 construction dates). All of these
> cars require some degree of attention and a
> few require far more help.

> Is there any source of infomation (beyond
> John White's excellent book) or training
> available for restoration of wood passenger
> cars. Does any museum provide training or
> expertise in such things (Mid-Continent?). I
> am in the midst of trying to develop a
> preservation assessment for the institution
> managing the cars but I know that I am
> seriously out of my depth in expertise about
> wood car construction, much less in being
> able to develop a plan to stabilize or
> restore any of these cars (aside from
> keeping the weather out of them).

> Any and all replies are of extreme value. We
> (Western Montana Chapter, NRHS) has finished
> patching and tarping roofs on many of the
> cars, but much much more remains.

> Thanks in advance.

> Michael Seitz, Vice President

> Western Montana Chapter, NRHS
I am working on two cars at the Illinois Railway Museum, Pullman 1907 B&M diner 1090 outdoors and Pullman 1906 cafe-passenger B&M 1094 in a car barn. Just to let people know, there is a "Pullman Library" at IRM that has specifications and floor plan drawings on passenger cars from this era through the end of their passenger car era. Earlier drawings, and builders photos thru the heavy weight era I understand are at the Smithsonian Museum of American History in DC. More photos are at the California State railway Museum. Get all the documentation you can, those are some of the Pullman sources. I talked with Craig LeFevre in charge of the car shop at Strasburg this summer and he has been very helpful in showing the modern approach to reconstructing and refurbishing cars for tourist operations. Believe it or not, they rebuild those cars every few years. Then across the street, I was taken behind the scenes by George Deeming, curator at the Pennsylvania Museum of Railway Transportation (?). His view differed, in reconstructing a snow plow from the original drawings. At IRM, I am fortunate in being trained by car shop volunteers with many many years of accumulated experience in getting the woodies back on their trucks and under their own power back out on the line! I suggest the same, for instance Seashore where they have an active apprentice program. there's lots of help out there! Ted Anderson


tedander@core.com