With many thanks to Charlotte Trolley and Lee Underwood, we have acquired a copy of a Brill 79-E Journal box print and created a detailed computer model of the part. Three of our volunteers travelled to Charlotte to inspect one of the existing journal boxes off of their ex-Fort Collins car and took lots of measurements and photos. I will be working with our patternmaker this week to come up with a final price for the pattern at which time I will relay expected costs to those who have signed up on the casting call list.

I have a question regarding this reproduction. The original part has the "square-text" Brill logo beneath the oil reservoir. I would like to acknowledge in some manner that this part is a reproduction. Assuming that the cost would not be significantly higher, should the new journal box be cast with the Brill logo, with NTHT logo or another identifying logo, or no logo at all? Suggestions and comments welcome.

Best Regards,

Andy Nold

Andy,

There are two sides to this answer:

IMHO a reproduction should include the original part numbers and logo, but also needs to have something else to differentiate it from an original. IE: on one side of the box has the original logo in it's original location and on the another side of the box is your logo and reproduction or reproduced by, and maybe the year.

The sticky part of the above prefered method is you need to talk to the US Patent and Trademark office to see if anyone is maintaining the Brill streetcar trademark. If no one is, then you are probably safe to reproduce, but if the trademark is being maintaned then you will need to get permission from the company to reproduce a trademarked logo, especially if you plan on selling finished items. If it is being reproduced for your own uses then it is usually ok, but when money changes hands then there is a problem.

If the company will not allow you to reproduce the logo, then you will need to omit it from the pattern. Also to be safe from copyright infringement, you should also change some of the non-critical dimensions of the finished part, so that the trademark holder cannot come by and sue you for selling Brill parts (since you are working to an original blueprint). When you change a few dimensions then the part becomes one that you are making to be compatable/interchangeable with the older version. In this day and age the lines between what is technically legal and what petty people will sue over is very blurry.

At work we had a situation, overseas where someone was making an almost exact copy of one of our patented products, called it a similar name and used a similar logo. We almost had to pursue legal action, but the other company decided it would be better to drop the product line. The product, trademark and tradename in question is registed in the US, Europe and in the country this company was headquarted in.

Take care,

Rich Cizik
MoW Foreman
Ct Eastern RR Museum
Willimantic, Ct 06226

Simply add an O for BRILLO and use steel-wool waste packing.

dave

Hi,

I remember that you used to have a neat site devoted to Trolleys and Interurbans in Texas.

I can't seem to find it lately. Could you post the web address?

Thanks,

Charles

If a marking is visable when the part is installed, then, baring any trademark issues include the marking.

Also, include somewhere on the part something to identify it as a modern replacment part. This is more critical on parts which have collector value. If a part has collector value try to make any modern ID mark into the part rather than raised, which can be removed by grinding....

I think we will reproduce the Brill logo depending on the additional cost. If it is substantial, then I will leave it up to the participating organizations to come to a consensus on paying the additional cost. Otherwise, there will be NTHT2006 cast in the back where the part number normally is found regardless of whether we include the Brill Logo.

Thanks for the thoughts, all.

As for the website, the only website I currently am involved in is our group website www.northtexastransport.org

Andy Nold
NTHT

Andy,

The simple thing to do is to put the date 2006 or 2007 into your new part.

How are you fixed for those tiny little 24 inch Birney wheels?

At the Western Railway Museum we just got a Birney truck but now need some wheeels to go with it.

Ted Miles

Me too Ted - but I can recycle bad order condemnable wheels and axles for a static display project.

dave

The SPCRR has produced a pattern for a 24” wheel for its narrow gauge freight car restorations. The pattern has a variation on a 19th century MCB tread with a 4” or so tread width. It should be good for most railroad style track. They are based on a Whitney Philadelphia wheel.

The pattern is designed to be cast in steel. Being insular, we have not addressed any FRA issues.

It should work for a birney.

Randy,

I'll pass the word along to the Shop guys, but I think some of them already read this site.

Are you going to do another truck or two for another car this year?

Thanks,

Ted Miles

Probably no new trucks this year. We are really focusing efforts on the car house. We has a cerimonial ground breaking over Memorial Day weekend, and are doing site and approch trackwork.

The next car to be restored is SP 10, a 1880 Carter narrow gauge boxcar which was still in service in 1960 when SP shut down the Owens Valley line. It is a complete car (missing only brake beams). It needs all new siding and roofing, but otherwise is good. Funding is mostly in place. The next truck project is for SP 1010 our 1882 combine we took to Railfair 1999. It currently sits on West Side trucks (which are suprisingly close to the originals)