A link of interest, shows what a freshly broken driving axle looks like. http://www.goatbbs.com/cgi-bin/bbs50/we ... 0992#40992

And a bit more news, it would seem that the #9 has 32 broken staybolts and niether the 9 or 12 may be operating again this year.

I have no pitty for CHS but I do feel for Railstar.

Is a shame if they don't operate steam the remainder of the year. So did Mid west do any of the boiler work? Seems kinda funny that they have been using Butler heavily and now one of the steamers has come down with an identical problem of the 69. Just a thought....

GTL used Urich not Butler. The 9 was restored at Strasburg Colorado.

A interesting picture. I know very little about steam locomotives, but I have some experience with axles. To me it looks like that axle has been cracked for a long time. It is interesting to see how little material was still connected when the final fracture came. Is not there supposed to be a hub liner in there somewhere? It also looks like the fit between the journal and brass was very poor.

FWIW I have been informed that Midwest Loco and Machine has been pretty busy there - they were there when I was helping get Railstar up and running this season, and returned to do a lot of work on 9. Not sure about any work on 12, apart from some interesting and unusual lubrication and piston repairs they made last May. I have not been informed as to who is responsible for the ongoing saga of staybolt work on 9. Comparing it to the situation with 69 may or may not be accurate - Urich did what boiler work was done during the recent long-term overhaul, but this may be ancient stays fatigued or crystallized to fragility and unable to accomodate the thermal / mechanical cycles of daily operation. If so, all the old stays need to be replaced, and by a competent boilermaker.

The photo may or may not indicate a long term problem of many years duration - the creeping crud could have taken days rather than years to develop. The critical stress point of failure was obvious, however. The colors might indicate heat problems, hard to say looking at a monitor.

I am also informed that the little diesel 31 is having difficulty with one of its two normally-asperated prime movers, reducing the train to 3 cars. Hard to make a profit with such little passenger capacity.

Railstar has done some remarkable work under truly absurd conditions getting this railroad running and keeping it going. I am pleased to have been able to help out when I could. I wish them the best of luck in keeping the line open for the duration of this season, and in rationally planning and executing a mechanical plan for preparation for next season.

dave

Clarification: Linn and Co in Strasburg, PA did a beautiful overhaul for Colorado RR Museum, and have nothing to do with the Loop.

Colorado Historical Society contracted with Urich Locomotive Works in Strasburg, CO, to overhaul 9, and with Railstar to operate the railroad.

Railstar contracted with Midwest Locomotive and Machine Works (among others) for repairs and maintenence.

To the best of my knowledge, all the operating equipment is owned by CHS. There may be a leased car in there somewhere....or not.

When repairs are needed, Railstar proposes and CHS disposes according to what CHS believes it can afford. Hopefully, CHS will recognise that economizing on winter overhauls and heavy maintenence and having no QC on outside mechanical contractors is a false economy, since the repercussions in terms of inability to earn income by reducing the available seats to be sold to willing passengers costs more than the cost to provide reliabile equipment, and permit Railstar to act accordingly.

Education is expensive.

dave

WHY is it that the State of Colorado either won't pay or is late paying its fair share of the agreed-to operating expenses for the successful Cumbres and Toltec Scenic Railroad, BUT the Colorado Historical Society has no problem wasting 10s of thousands of hard-earned taxpayer dollars on a locomotive that was never designed for mountain narrow gauge and another that was worn out 60 years ago??

Current thought is the axles on 12 were incompetently replaced by Stan Matthews at Shop Services many years ago and will all need replacement. I am not privy to the rationale behind this statement. No current strategy for doing so reported as of yet.

Only the broken stays in 9 are being replaced - installed by Butler then seal welded by Urich's code welder. Work may be done within the remainder of the operating season. I have no information as to why anybody believes over 30 stays broke nor what is being done to prevent further breakage, or if these topics are being considered at all.

Any or all of this may have changed by the time you read it.

Lots of case studies seem to be emerging from the ongoing process at the Loop, from which we can all learn.

The Loop and CATS don't feed at the same trough - useless to consider them as competing for the same funds. Different departments with different goals and priorities.

dave

Anybody know if this was 30 broken stays in one fell swoop? Or, has the engine been collecting broken stays all summer and was finally pulled from service when they found three in a row?

Presumably the stays were tested and inspected while the locomotive was torn down at Urich. I don't know who did the work nor what his qualifications may be.

When 9 arrived, the burner installation was such that it could not be controlled beyond very large parameters. At the first test fire at Silver Plume, under Urich's personal supervision, 140 PSI was raised from cold in 75 minutes. I do not know how many times such extremely fast fire ups were done, but can easily believe any weak stays might be cut from the herd in the process. I also believe I was told that the calculations were run as if it was going to get a Form 4, again, by whom with what qualifications I do not know.

I would not be alarmed by the discovery of 3 or 4 broken stays in an old locomotive returned to service after a month of use. Over 30 is beyond my comprehension unless there is an underlying cause. Given the C&S got more than their money's worth out of 9 over decades of service, and their unwillingness to put up with a locomotive that would be in the RH getting new stays more than out on the road, I can't believe there is an inherent design flaw in the boiler. This leaves quality of the metal or quality of the worksmanship to question.

There is no CMO or qualified mechanic at Silver Plume. Daily inspections are made by engine crews qualified as operators but not mechanics or boilermakers. How the large quantity of stays was discovered or by whom under what circumstances I haven't been told.

Given I am ignorant of more, I won't speculate further.

dave

Text removed as it applied to the posting removed by the moderator.


dave

I have deleted what I believe to be a gratuitous flame about the Colorado Historical Society.

I have just deleted two speculative posts that bordered on flames. I'm sorry but this topic is now locked.