Hello my name is Brian Fleming, most of you have heard me and the restoration work that my staff, and I are performing on the ex SP&S 539.

Also most of you know that this locomotive was built as a Northern Pacific W-3 class #1762.

It is my intention to restore the locomotive as close to the 1917 as built configuration as possible. That means converting back to coal, construct a original style W-3 cab and the list goes on.

I need all the Drawings and photos I can get for the W-3 class Northern Pacific Mikado.

Please is you want to see this restoration done right make me copies of your information, I own the last W-3 on the face of the earth so that means know body needs this information more then me. Please Help and if you do not have any information ask your friends.

Thank You,
Brian Fleming

Brian,

You may want to try the Minnesota Historical Society in Minneapolis.

I know that they have a vast library of drawings that came from the Great Northern. They may have some for your engine as well.

Best wishes,

JD Johnson, Morehead and North Fork Railroad Historian

Back to original? Did I just hear a fat guy leave the stage?

Kidding aside, I have a Aug 1986 Model Railroader with an article on the W3's in it, with your name on it.

Best of luck with your Northern Pacific. locomotive.

Smokebox

Dear Brian,

I applaud your willingness to take direct action to support preservation. One of the perils of a backdating project, such as you propose to undertake, is that it removes the parts that the NP and SP&S actually worked with. Right now the locomotive is a physical record that shows how NP and SP&S shop workers interpreted blueprints, and how roundhouse crews made on-the-spot repairs to keep the locomotive on the road. As such it is valuable to those of us who wish to better understand how locomotive maintenance was actually carried out. Even if you ultimately decide to proceed with the backdating project, I hope that you will carefully document your work as you proceed. (using the original parts also may help save some $$ for the project as well)

Tom Cornillie

Tom,

One of the biggest reasons I am willing to backdate the locomotive is, I got it as a basket case missing a large amount of parts. The group that worked on the engine before me tried to remove every part they could with no records of where they went. Most if it is not hard to figure out but some of it has got me pulling my hair out. That’s why I am looking to locate all of the drawings I can get me dirty little hands on, as of right now I have 0!

You would think that some of the historical society’s which have devoted there existence to the preservation of artifacts such as the drawings for my W-3 would step forward to help me more accurately restore this locomotive.

The cab that is on it right now is off a GN locomotive, the original covered about two feet more of the wrapper sheet.

I am also converting the engine back to burn coal, that means reinstalling a duplex stocker. I need drawings for the grates in a bad way.

Brian Fleming

Brian,

I might comment that any drawing prepared for one of the modeling publications must be considered as no better than a secondary source. These drawings are crafted from the best sources the draftsman has available, but often these are little more than basic dimensions, photos, and imagination.

I would suspect that a better source than a railway historical society would be the archives collection of the builder. Who built this engine? The Lima builder's drawings are at the California State Railway Museum, while the Alco materials reside with the Mohawk & Hudson Chapter of the NRHS. They should be reachable through:

Alco Historic Photos
P.O. Box 655
Schenectady, NY 12301

Although I believe they have much more material than just the photo collection. I'm not sure where the Baldwin materials reside.

You will also likely have to chase down drawings of the vendor supplied parts by way of the vendors, or those who have preserved drawings to maintain appliances on other locomotives. Using a drawing of a Duplex stoker as applied to another locomotive might not be ideal, but will be better than nothing.

Another source would be any articles about these specific locomotives, or the specific appliances, that were published in the trade press of the day. Several university libraries around the country should have bound volumes of both Railway Mechanical Engineer and Railway Review, their predecessors and descendants. These articles are normally quite technical and provide drawings; the articles about new locomotives usually include a list of vendor supplied appliances used in their construction.

Brian,

There is a large collection of Baldwin prints at the libraryof the South West Methodist University in Texas. I think it is called the De Goyer library. Maybe some one else can give more details.

All I know is that they were able to get me a copy of the Builders print for GN 2584 which had a listing of all associated prints for the engine. I was able to use this to go to the Minnesota Historical Society to get a print for the whistle that is on 2584. Un fortunatly, all they had was the print for the valve. I had a friend of mine in Montana climb on top of the locomotive and measure the rest for me. The whistle is unique in that it has 7 (yes seven) notes.

I built my copy full length but 1/2 diameter.

Hope this helps.

JD Johnson, Morehead and North Fork Railroad Historian

NPRHA has the following on CD, which includes the W-3:

Steam Erecting Drawings
SKU:N7015

$29.95 Qty:

In Stock: (10)
NP Steam Locomotive Erecting Drawings: 104 erecting drawings from the collection of Robert Hundman of Hundman Publishing. The drawings files on this CD are saved as 3- to 8-megabit, JPG files. This format is recognized by virtually all computer software systems, as it is used throughout the Internet to transmit and display photo files. The JPEG files can be resaved into other formats if needed for your application. An Index spreadsheet is included on the CD to make locating specific drawings easy. Copyright NPRHA 2005.
Equipment Classes covered on this CD:
Locomotives – A-1, A-2, A-3, A-5, D-5, G-1, G-2, H-3, L-9, L-10, P, Q, Q-1, Q-2, Q-3, Q-4, Q-5, Q-6, S-4, S-10, T, W, W-2, W-3, W-5, X, Y, Y-2, Z-3, Z-5, Z-6, Z-8, Cab Numerals.
Tenders – 1F, 1G, 2G, 8E, 11C. 12C, 13E, 14E, 15E, 21E, 22E, 25E, 27E, 28E, 30E, 31E, 32E, 33E, 34E, 35E, 37E, 39E, 40E, 41E, 42E, 43E, 44E, 47E, 49E, 50E, 52E, 54E, 55E, 59E, Aux.

http://www1.storehost.com/stores/xq/xfm/store_id.615/page_id.23/Item_ID.135133/parent_ids.0,0,11/qx/store.htm

You might also contact Robert Hundman directly and see if what he has includes more than what's on the cd.

I have many original negatives of W-3's in my own collection, but all are from the 40's and 50's.

Good luck with the restoration! I have to admit, I much prefer it's looks after the standard NP headlight was added!

Contact Info for Mr. Hundman:

Hundman Publishing
4204 Russell Road, Unit P
Mukilteo, WA 98275

(425) 493-6985

This is from the masthead of his magazine, so he shouldn't have a problem with my posting it here. When they answer ask for Bob; he'll normally take calls if he's in.