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Question re: current disposition cars used on NS excursions
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21193		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Tom Cornillie [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Question re: current disposition cars used on NS excursions
Hello all

I am looking for information on the current disposition of coaches
used in the N&W, NS steam program. I am currently most interested in
the nee-N&W coaches that were used in Chicago commuter service (c.
1969-1978) before being directed to the steam program in the
mid-1980s. It is my understanding that most of these cars still
exist, many being owned by NRHS chapters, but have been largely out of
use for some time.

The information I am most interested in is their current owner,
location, and condition – however any and all information will be
greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
Tom Cornillie
Author:  jwallis [ Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question re: current disposition cars used on NS excursi
I don't know about the N&W coaches, but there were some Southern coaches, including the open-air coach Lookout Mountain, that wound up on the Mount Hood Railroad in Oregon. The Western Maryland Scenic got a few, including Man-O-War.

Jim Wrinn's book, Steam's Camelot, talks about this a little.
Author:  Tom Cornillie [ Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question re: current disposition cars used on NS excursi
The most N&W coaches that entered the NS steam program through Chicago commuter service were converted to open-windows. Alas, not many photos of these cars can be found -- the only one that I came upon was this one:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/jay611/INCX_Coach.jpg

Image

It is kept at Little Creek, VA, and I believe that it is owned by the Tidewater Chapter NRHS. It was likely repainted in to SNCF (French National Railways) paint for a movie shoot.

There were a few cars selected by NS C. 1990 for inclusion in their HEP conversion of their fleet. These cars were air-conditioned and equipped with sealed windows. NS sold the bulk of this fleet to the Susquehanna and the Western Maryland Scenic. However, I have heard that those cars not selected for HEP conversion have remained with their NRHS chapters and largely out of work since. I also remember two of these cars going to the Kiamichi railroad in Oklahoma in the early 1990's - but have lost track of them since.

Again, any information would be greatly appreciated.

Tom Cornillie
Author:  B. Allan [ Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question re: current disposition cars used on NS excursi
The former C of G combine Fort Mitchell is owned by the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic RR and is in servive.
Author:  Gary Gray [ Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question re: current disposition cars used on NS excursi
Roanoke Chapter, NRHS still owns 537, it is servicable and is leased to NCTM (Spencer). We converted the car back to closed windows around 1990, the cars that were in open window configuration were starting to suffer from rust in the side sills and side sheets due to leakage. We kept the interior in its hi-capacity commuter configuration, but restored the original color scheme. It was converted to HEP and had the NS 40 year inspection done around 1992, by Lake Erie Rail Car. (around the same time, Lake Erie brokered the sale of C of G 727, the Ft. Mitchell, from the Chapter to Cuyohoga Valley) 539 is owned by the Wautauga Valley Chapter, NRHS. It is currently fully Amtrak certified, along with their ex-FEC coach and ex-ACL diner. I believe the 540 is at a now dormant tourist RR in Kentucky. Incidently, all of the Roanoke Chapter NRHS equipment that was used on the NS steam program is still servicable. Those cars are N&W 1407 (HW ex-mail storage tool car), N&W 512 (P2 class divided coach) N&W 537, N&W 1827 (ex-Wabash a/c lightweight coach), GN 1148 "Devils Lake" (dinette/dormitory, "rolling fast food" on the Steam Program) and IC 3305 "Mardi Gras", streamlined heavyweight round end observation.
Author:  John D [ Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question re: current disposition cars used on NS excursi
Devils Lake and Mardis Gras are now at NCTM (Spencer). There are a total of 5 N&W passenger cars there now: the one Gary mentioned, the two mentioned here, plus two more whose details escape me.
Author:  Alan S. Levy [ Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: current disposition cars used on NS/ How many?
How many passenger cars did NS actually own?
Author:  Tom Cornillie [ Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: current disposition cars used on NS/ How many?
Dear Group,

Thank you for the informative replies - I think we are getting somewhere.

Two clarifying questions -

First:
Gary Mentioned: "I believe the 540 is at a now dormant tourist RR in Kentucky."

If somebody can help me to pin down the current owner of this car, it would be greatly appreciated.

Second:
Can anybody here refer me to an e-mail address for an active Tidewater Chapter NRHS officer.

Many thanks,
Tom Cornillie
Author:  Topfuel [ Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question re: current disposition cars used on NS excursi
I believe at least 2 of the ex-SOU PS/shops 1957 built (originally stainless sheathed) coaches are owned by NYS&W and are normally stored at the Syracuse DLW station.
Author:  johnacraft [ Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: current disposition cars used on NS/ How many?
Alan S. Levy wrote:
How many passenger cars did NS actually own?


At the end, they still owned a couple of the OWLs (Open Window Lightweights) that Tom asked about, 5 ex-Southern fluted-side cars from the 1949 order (841-845), CofG 726, and two coaches (28 & 29) that I believed were mostly used in the business car trains.

I don't recall which car(s) were scrapped after the Lynchburg smashup.

The cars on the Mount Hood were ex-Southern heavyweights without tightlock couplers, sold after the Dismal Swamp incident.

JAC
Author:  Alan Maples [ Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: current disposition cars used on NS/ How many?
Quote:
Gary Mentioned: "I believe the 540 is at a now dormant tourist RR in Kentucky."

If somebody can help me to pin down the current owner of this car, it would be greatly appreciated.


I believe this is a reference to a car stored at the Hardin Southern Railroad, this line having ceased operations a year or two ago. I think the coaches have been sold to TVRM.

Alan Maples
Author:  Gary Gray [ Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: current disposition cars used on NS/ How many?
Tom, I believe that the tourist RR was the Hardin Southern, contact Stuart Hale who posts here, he is from that area. John D., the other "red" cars at Spencer are the Roanoke Chapter cars, all 3 coaches are there, as well as 1148 and 3305. John A., NS had no open window cars after 1992, all had been either sold, donated, or converted back to AC and HEP. Side sheet deterioration was a big factor in the decision to eliminate open window cars from the roster. The only open window car on the train in later years was the Roanoke Chapter NRHS #1829. It was a sister to the 1827 and had been an ex-Wabash, nee B&M car also. The chapter aquired it from RRP (it had been in Baltimore commuter service) around 1980. The Chapter converted the car to a high capacity "OWL" in the early 80's. It was overhauled at LERC at the same time as the 537. The corrosion in the side sills & sheets was addressed at that time, and it was equiped with HEP and electric heat. 1829 was the car "destroyed" in the Lynchburg smashup. The vestibule was crushed and the frame of the car was twisted in the accident, effectively "totalling" the car. The Chapter received a financial settlement from NS in 1985 (which I had the "pleasure" of negotiating). It was stripped of every usable part over the next few years, and the remains were scrapped about 3 years ago. If you'd like a souvenir, I could probably find you a chunk :) Regards,
Author:  Ray [ Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question re: current disposition cars used on NS excursi
If I remember correctly, 2 of the Southern cars went to Syracuse, 2 went to WMSR, and I think one might have went to GSMR?

I think WMSR has the 540.
Author:  Ryan Scott [ Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question re: current disposition cars used on NS excursi
The GSMR has two ex-NS steam program coaches. I do not remember the numbers, but I will check it when I get to work tomorrow. Wish we had more of them.

Ryan
Author:  Ryan Scott [ Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question re: current disposition cars used on NS excursi
The GSMR has the 841 and the 536. The 536 was the Powhatan Arrow when it arrived here. It had some pretty significant damage to the A end. The 841 is the Royal Palm. Both are in service. The 536 was gutted and turned into a home made club car.

Ryan
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