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| open cars, any Ideas? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21217 |
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| Author: | Jack A. Siffert [ Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | open cars, any Ideas? |
We might be in need of a "open" car. We might be dong a steam weekend in 6 to 7 weeks and who would want to ride in sealed cars? We do not have any mill gons. the only thing we have is a 85 foot low deck flat car. I was tring to come up with some good way of using it . Any ideas? chain link fence?? tacky but would you ride it right behind the steamer? We might be able to get an open window car or 2 but a truely "open" car would be the best. weather permiting of course. I'm looking for any ideas or input from those that have "been there done that" Thanks! |
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| Author: | Ray Reter [ Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: open cars, any Ideas? |
A completely open car can be both a positive and a negative. I've been in open cars on a number of railroads over the years. It certainly is more fun riding in an open car than in a sealed-window coach. You must be aware of the route your trip will be taking: are there close rock outcroppings, trees, or trackside structures? People do tend to stick their heads out over the side of the cars to get a better glimpse of the train. Are there low tree limbs along the ROW (as in low enough to be snagged by a leading car and then released like a slingshot into the open car after the lead car passes)? I wouldn't want to ride in an open car immediately behind a steamer--been there, done that. It took a couple of days to get the cinders out of my hair, nose, ears, and the clothes I was wearing were never quite the same! -- Ray |
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| Author: | G. W. Laepple [ Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: open cars, any Ideas? |
If you've got a flatcar with side stake pockets, build railings using vertical timbers in the pockets with 2x4s nailed horizontally. Borrow or rent folding chairs or knock together some benches down the center of the car. I even saw a bulkhead flat with steel cattle gates along the sides and a doorway cut through the bulkhead at one railroad recently. Use your imagination. If you aren't going very far or very fast, you can make it work. |
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| Author: | Benjamin True [ Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: open cars, any Ideas? |
The Old Dominon Chapter NRHS operates MOO1 and MOO2 on their Buckingham Branch excursions. Both are 40 foot pulp wood flats with bulk heads. A basic frame was built to hold a tarp across the top, and cattle gates were used for the railings. Being a part time farmer too, I would say rough cut wood might be the cheapest option unless gates in your area are cheaper than they are around here..... Ben |
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| Author: | Alan Maples [ Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: open cars, any Ideas? |
I favor open cars anytime I'm riding an excursion. I've seen them built out of a combination of just about any car type plus imagination. I recently rode the Delaware & Ulster excursion which featured two open cars made from flats. It was a beautiful sunny day and the train moved fast enough to get a good breeze going. Almost nobody rode the coaches; everyone was out in the open cars. Ditto Little River Railroad (former boxcars); Tioga Central (converted P70 coach); EBT (box and flat cars); Walkersville Southern (flat car with roof added) . . . and the list goes on. Pete Claussen's Three Rivers Rambler also uses a converted flat car, which has also been fitted with a lift to take care of the wheelchair access issues. The lack of a roof means cinders are an issue with steam, or at least coal fired steam (Three Rivers is an oil burner) - and inclement weather. We just built an open car out of a former wreck train Pullman that was otherwise a lost cause. She's a battleship, especially after adding three inches of new concrete over the floor to cover various sins and bring her back down on the springs where she belongs. We deliberately chose not to put any seats in - passengers are free to circulate around, and return to their coach seat when they get tired of standing. Alan Maples Everett Railroad |
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| Author: | scrmcurator [ Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: open cars, any Ideas? |
The only complaint I've had with most of the open cars I've been on is that they always seem to have seats down the middle. You can't see well if you're sitting down, and somebody invariably stands in front of you. The Strasburg has "normal" coach seating on their open cars which works much better IMHO. It also encourages people to stay seated, while the central-bench style cars actually encourage standing. |
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| Author: | Bobharbison [ Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: open cars, any Ideas? |
scrmcurator wrote: The Strasburg has "normal" coach seating on their open cars which works much better IMHO. It also encourages people to stay seated, while the central-bench style cars actually encourage standing.
You're correct about the center style seating ending up with folks standing in front of you. As you mention, normal style seats work much better. Our open car has one other feature that works well. About the first 4 rows of seats aren't installed. That provides an open area for the inevitable group of folks who wander into the car and want to stand to gather without blocking the aisleway. Many folks want to just walk out and take a brief look without sitting down. Allowing an open space without seats at the end works well for that. |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: open cars, any Ideas? |
Several "main line" railroads once had open cars. Rio Grande and the Union Pacific come to mind. These all had a center aisle and some kind of coach seating. My guess for the seating would be wood slat -- much like streetcars once had -- not upholstered. From the Denver Public Library's on-line photos comes this view of a Rio Grande open sightseeing car. 
And also from the same source is this view of a car at Hanging Bridge in the Royal Gorge. 
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| Author: | Dave [ Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: open cars, any Ideas? |
I recall it was uncommonly warm in the Gorge that day......... Anyhow, open cars don't have to be costly or complex. In fact, the KISS principle applies pretty well. NHVRR has made an entire train of open cars from military flatcars with simple post-supported roofs, plywood side walls, and essentially school bus seats. Loading is through side doors to raised platforms if I recall correctly. I have worked on cars that load through a "cattle chute" that hinges from the side sill, some raised and lowered by hand, others using a windlass. This is much more bothersome and occasionally have from been left open during a move and ruined my day, not to mention the cost of the train that didn't run while we repaired it. dave |
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| Author: | Dennis Storzek [ Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: open cars, any Ideas? |
Jack A. Siffert wrote: We might be in need of a "open" car. We might be dong a steam weekend in 6 to 7 weeks and who would want to ride in sealed cars?
We do not have any mill gons. the only thing we have is a 85 foot low deck flat car. I was tring to come up with some good way of using it . Any ideas? chain link fence?? tacky but would you ride it right behind the steamer? We might be able to get an open window car or 2 but a truely "open" car would be the best. weather permiting of course. I'm looking for any ideas or input from those that have "been there done that" Thanks! It sounds like this car is needed for a one-time deal, so all those rebuilt coaches are getting way off topic. I assume that the 85’ low-deck flatcar is an ex TTX car of some sort, which means a steel deck and no stake pockets. Here is the most cost effective way I can think of to put railings on such a car: Cut enough 1 ½” Pipe or fence post material to put posts every ten feet the length of the car. Make them as long as the railing is to be high; I’d make it higher than waist height, so there is no danger of a jolt sending someone over the railing. Cross drill the posts for the cables that will be the actual railings, on close enough centers to keep kids from slipping out between them. Weld the posts to the deck with the holes in line. Weld a diagonal brace to each end post to keep them from being pulled over from tension on the cables. The cables can either be plastic coated “aircraft cable” or five or seven strand galvanized cable; whatever is cheapest. There is no need for flexibility. Run the top cable through a length of plastic plumbing pipe between each pair of posts to give a more user friendly feel; the lower cables can be bare. Terminate the cables with eyebolts at the end posts, and use the threads of the bolts to tension the cables. Cover the Crosbies or three bolt clamps with short lengths of larger plastic pipe. Add plastic pipe caps to the top of the posts to cover the sharp edges. If they don’t stay on securely, drill them and run a self tapping screw through them into the post. This assumes that the operation is slow enough that loose chairs are adequate. Either buy or rent sufficient lawn furniture. Consider putting a third railing down the car centerline for use as a hand hold. If you need cover, talk to your local tent rental business. The narrow tents they use to cover walkways should work well on a flatcar. Determine what they need for tent poles, then substitute pipe welded to the car, braced well enough so they don’t collapse if someone uses one as a hand hold. |
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