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| That elusive Erie 4-6-2 https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21488 |
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| Author: | bobyar2001 [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | That elusive Erie 4-6-2 |
No. 2524, headed west to Korea, at Cleveland, July 3, 1954: http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?f ... ie2524.jpg |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That elusive Erie 4-6-2 |
Considering all the other used steam power available in the 1950's, were these Erie engines really a good deal for Korea? |
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That elusive Erie 4-6-2 |
I believe the Erie donated this locomotive to South Korea, so I imagine the price was right. While I'm not an expert on Korean railroads, I imagine they had a pretty light loading gauge, precluding the use of US Superpower. |
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| Author: | survivingworldsteam [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That elusive Erie 4-6-2 |
wilkinsd wrote: I believe the Erie donated this locomotive to South Korea, so I imagine the price was right. While I'm not an expert on Korean railroads, I imagine they had a pretty light loading gauge, precluding the use of US Superpower.
I believe that is a correct assumption; most of Korean rolling stock at that time was Japanese-built, with the largest being 2-8-2s. Most of what we sent them was S-160s, with a few "General Pershing" 2-8-0s built during World War I and other such lighter weigh engines. -James Hefner Hebrews 10:20a Surviving World Steam Project |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That elusive Erie 4-6-2 |
This particular locomotive was a gift to the nation of S. Korea. Some years ago, I saw a photo of a poorly identified hunk of scrap steam locomotive in a field in S. Korea, thought by some to have been the remains of this Erie engine. Whether it was or wasn't, the remains were simply pieces of butchered carcass. Did that image appear in RYPN at one time? |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That elusive Erie 4-6-2 |
Erie 2524 was not the ONLY steam locomotive to go to Korea to help their "war-ravaged railroad." I believe there were other Erie Railroad locomotives along with some from both the Chesapeake & Ohio and the Pennsylvania (and perhaps from other railroads.) All of the other engines were switching and freight locomotive types though, but since Erie 2524 was the only passenger wheel arrangement sent over there, it is the one that most people focus on. I have never seen a list of exactly what locomotives went over to the Republic of Korea nor the exact total. Surprising considering that they went there rather late and it would seem that such a list must exist somewhere. You would think that some railroad historian would petition the U.S. Government under the Freedom of Information Act. Certainly the info would no longer be considered as classified. Les |
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| Author: | Dave [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That elusive Erie 4-6-2 |
Hume is over there now, probably working on it, and wondering what that eerie glow is in the sky to the north...... dave |
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| Author: | survivingworldsteam [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That elusive Erie 4-6-2 |
The locomotive you are thinking of is not in some field in South Korea; it is in the middle of a former minefield right smack in the DMZ. It is a Japanese-built "Mikasa" class 2-8-2 that was trapped there by the war. It was pictured on my webpage on Korean steam. My original website is gone now; but the Korean webpage and the rest of my website can be found on Internet archives; here is one: http://web.archive.org/web/200503090318 ... /korea.htm It is the one credited to Tom Reynolds. It also appeared on a Korean postage stamp; and elsewhere. There was a single report of a locomotive with a Vanderbuilt tender spotted at Freedom Bridge in 1984 and 1985. That report was never confirmed; and subsequent visitors looking for the Erie Pacific did not find it there. I DO NOT want another hunt for a locomotive that does not exist; if it is still in existance; it has not been seen in many years. -James Hefner Hebrews 10:20a Surviving World Steam Project |
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| Author: | giterdun [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That elusive Erie 4-6-2 |
Les- You're right. C&O donated 18 C-16 class 0-8-0s to Korea in 1954. I wonder if the Erie engine ever made it to Korea. I was watching an episode of Deep Sea Detectives last winter, and they were diving on a merchant ship that sank in the fog a couple of miles off of San Fransisco. Fuel oil was leaking out of the ship's tanks, creating an environmental problem, and the show was about sealing the tanks. Interesting, but what stuck in my mind was an offhand comment that the ship's cargo was railroad material for the Korean War. -chris |
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| Author: | robertjohndavis [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That elusive Erie 4-6-2 |
My friend Dave Albertson smoked out all the rumored sightings a few years back and came up with nothing. I am not convinced it was scrapped, but there is no evidence it wasn't. Really, the shame of it isn't a missing Pacific in S.K., but the museum and a half full of American artifacts we've lost in Cuba. I trade every report of the Erie 4-6-2 for just one relic returned from Cuba. Rob survivingworldsteam wrote: The locomotive you are thinking of is not in some field in South Korea; it is in the middle of a former minefield right smack in the DMZ. It is a Japanese-built "Mikasa" class 2-8-2 that was trapped there by the war.
It was pictured on my webpage on Korean steam. My original website is gone now; but the Korean webpage and the rest of my website can be found on Internet archives; here is one: http://web.archive.org/web/200503090318 ... /korea.htm It is the one credited to Tom Reynolds. It also appeared on a Korean postage stamp; and elsewhere. There was a single report of a locomotive with a Vanderbuilt tender spotted at Freedom Bridge in 1984 and 1985. That report was never confirmed; and subsequent visitors looking for the Erie Pacific did not find it there. I DO NOT want another hunt for a locomotive that does not exist; if it is still in existance; it has not been seen in many years. -James Hefner Hebrews 10:20a Surviving World Steam Project |
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| Author: | eldiner [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That elusive Erie 4-6-2 |
Quote: I wonder if the Erie engine ever made it to Korea. I was watching an episode of Deep Sea Detectives last winter, and they were diving on a merchant ship that sank in the fog a couple of miles off of San Fransisco.
The Erie 4-6-2 did make it to Korea. There was a photo in the Erie Railroad employee magazine showing it in Korea shortly after its arrival. |
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| Author: | ctjacks [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That elusive Erie 4-6-2 |
The first Morning Sun book on the Erie has color pictures of this engine operating in South Korea along with an interesting business car. Chris Jacks. |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That elusive Erie 4-6-2 and locomotives to Korea |
Chris - Thanks for the info on the 18 C-16 class 0-8-0's that the Chesapeake & Ohio sent over to South Korea. I also know that there was at least one Pennsy B-6 0-6-0 because this was talked about some time ago on the PRR-FAX discussion website of the Pennsylvania Railroad Technical and Historical Society. So now we know that at least 20 engines were shipped over there (the Erie 4-6-2, eighteen C&O 0-8-0's and one PRR B6.) Will we ever know the total number shipped? From what railroads? And the road numbers involved? And a final question; maybe Erie 2524 wasn't preserved but were any of the OTHER locomotives? It would seem that at least one should have been as a thank you to the generosity of the American Railroads. Les |
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| Author: | survivingworldsteam [ Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That elusive Erie 4-6-2 and locomotives to Korea |
Les Beckman wrote: Chris -
Thanks for the info on the 18 C-16 class 0-8-0's that the Chesapeake & Ohio sent over to South Korea. I also know that there was at least one Pennsy B-6 0-6-0 because this was talked about some time ago on the PRR-FAX discussion website of the Pennsylvania Railroad Technical and Historical Society. So now we know that at least 20 engines were shipped over there (the Erie 4-6-2, eighteen C&O 0-8-0's and one PRR B6.) Will we ever know the total number shipped? From what railroads? And the road numbers involved? And a final question; maybe Erie 2524 wasn't preserved but were any of the OTHER locomotives? It would seem that at least one should have been as a thank you to the generosity of the American Railroads. Les A World War I vintage "General Pershing" 4-6-0 was indeed preserved, and given back to America as a thank you gift. It is at the National RR Museum, Green Bay, WI. It is my understanding there are numerous locomotives on display across South Korea, of which I only have a handfull (maybe three or four). I have asked Hume to be on the lookout for others, and take pictures for me if he is able. Others are preserved at the Railway Museum and Transport College in Bugok (nr Seoul); and two are on display at the Children's Grand Park and one at the Science Museum in Seoul. Of these, some are American built; but they were built for Korean National Railways; they were not sent over during the Korean War. Now, during the Korean War; North Korea is known to have captured some South Korean engines; including some S-160s. (They also acquired some regauged American-built "Russian Decapods" and S-160s from the Russians and Chinese.) When Ron Ziel wrote Steam Under A Red Star in 1993, it was estimated there were 400 steam locomotives in North Korea. Since that time, cash-strapped North Korea has been sending their steam locomotives to China for scrapping (even at least one still operational and recently ran for visiting railfans); but there may be a slim possibility that some are still around. -James Hefner Hebrews 10:20a Surviving World Steam Project |
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| Author: | survivingworldsteam [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | North Korean Steam Update |
Just found the following on the web. Looks like little will be left of North Korean steam after next year: http://www.farrail.net/pages/touren-eng ... 07-04.html -James Hefner Hebrews 10:20a Surviving World Steam Project |
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