I keep hearing all kinds of things about the incident in OK. I have been told by someone in the orgnization that they got a batch of bad fuel and had to shut down near Heavener, OK, but I also keep hearing that they dropped a soft plug and damaged the crownsheet. There is also scuttlebut that the FRA is now frowning on Mainline Steam Operations, but I figure one can still run whatever they want on their own RR as long as it is legal.

What did happen? I do know there this engine has had a lot of mechanical issues while out on the KCS, and has tied up the railroad several times in several places, and I can for sure see that anything that smacks of ameturism, carelessness, or just being plain old unsafe would keep steam off just about any mainline.

KCS did put a lot of trust in LASTA. One wonders what is happening.

And, BTW before anyone gets their pantys in a wad about "being negative" I am just asking a question, and would observe that responsible steam operators should have no fear of the truth.

I think that only about 5% of what goes on in US railroad preservation actually gets any coverage in RYPN - which is down from a high of maybe 8% a few years ago and I think there is a slow downward trend. (These are my own guesstimates - your numbers may differ)

The LASTA provides a key example, as this organization has undertook a number of activities at breakneck speed - but there has been scarcely any word of it here.

YOU and only YOU can change this - put your free-lance reporters hat on, and make some phone calls. After talking with several individuals you will get a better sense of what has been happening on the ground and what the future may hold. Then, write it up and send it to your friendly RYPN editors via the link on the homepage.

Tom Cornillie

You could always go check out LASTA's yahoo group page. When somebody tries to posts a reasonable question regarding something, they get flamed and attacked by the foamers who think they are in charge of that yahoo group.

Seriously, the LASTA is going to need to get their act together. I have a feeling they are on very thin ice with KCS and on the verge of screwing things up for many other groups dealing with KCS.

I'm very surprised that KCS even allowed an mostly unproven locomotive to operate on it's busy main lines.

Hasn't every trip ended up with an KCS diesel pulling the 745?

~Switchman

As many people like to joke, Louisiana works differently than anywhere else. My understanding is that LASTA is very well connected to the state political machine (and in LA there is only one party). A lot of political pressure has been put on the various railroads to let this locomotive run. While this certainly avoids the problems most of us have, it certainly appears (and this is just speculation on my part) this protection has made them less professional than the other steam operators around the country.

Well, put on my reporter hat (I did write sports back in college for several local papers) and here is what I found out.


The 745 experienced a low water condition due to the crew not watching the water gauge. Sources were of the opinion that they were more interested in watching the smoke from the engine trail back over the train, and how high they could blast it into the air.

When they put in the new crown sheet, there were installed six (6) one inch fusible plugs, which followed the standard SP practice. Five of the six melted out. The FRA investigated, of course, and said that all the work performed by former members of the NS steam crew was of the highest quality.

It was also mentioned that they were putting out a "bad fuel" story to cover their tracks. Sources also said because of the incident, they looked for the FRA to further tighten the regulations as they apply to steam locomotives.

My understanding of this situation is very similar to what Mr. Templin stated. I also have reason to believe that the FRA's position on the mechanical work is very favorable, and the quality of the mechancial work likely saved the crew during the incident.

I might also add that there was concern by some that the loco would not be properly cared for once it was operable. It seems that there may have been truth to that, unfortunitly. It is also true that it only takes one careless crew to create a problem on a loco that many crews operate.

I have been curious about this situation for some time, but was not interested in "stirring the pot" so to speak. That said, it would be nice if more news about recent happenings would show up on RYPN, and it is always nice for credit to be given where credit is due, good or bad. I would also hope that those that are reading about this locomotive understand that it takes very little time for a less than ideal operator to undo the work completed by any mechanic, especially when the mechanic has no say in how the machine is operated. The only other thing I will say is that I hope they do not ruin it for the rest of us that are interested in "keeping the water up" on the locomotives we are responsible for.

Good luck to all involved.

Ryan Scott

I was extremely impressed with the quality of boiler work I saw going into this project.

I am reminded of Porta's response after the Gettysburg Big Bang: this isn't a technological problem, it is a training and qualification problem. He considered it criminal if anybody was permitted to take responsibility for maintaining and operating a locomotive without having been rigorously educated and tested as is commonplace in many other parts of the world - and as was customary in apprenticeships and testing programs in the railroad industry in days gone by.

I''ve seen truly scary things done by people working beyond their level of knowledge and competence on many tourist railroads and parks. If FRA or any regulatory agency wishes to correct the problem, technological soultions won't do it: no matter how idiot resistant you make a machine, there is always an idiot to prove you can't go far enough. Perhaps it is time for a national qualification program and standards?

dave

Since the word is out, what was stated here earlier in the thread is true. I was NOT on the trip due to other business and life in general. The regular engineer was not on board the locomotive and was getting his rest on the train when the incident occurred. The engineer left specific instructions before he went off duty and those instructions were not adhered to by the attending crew,who was a LASTA member as fireman and a KCS supposedly "steam qualified" engineer. there was indeed a bad load of fuel oil taken aboard the engine...seems about 500 gallons of antifreeze was in the load as well which made firing pretty interesting to say the least. There were some politics involved and not not very good decisions made by LASTA management regarding the manning of the locomotive. Hopefully the FRA will look at the "human factors" surrounding the incident and it will not deter other steam operations or make them more difficult in the future.

This is the danger of the "hey, gang, let's get old number 13 out of the park and fixed up to play with" way of doing things; no one is responsible, and the only constant is ego.

I fear that the problem in this case was that usually in the above scenario, the group itself fixes the engine up over a long period, allowing for their gaining education and experience. Here, they were able to get ahold of federal money and pay a professional to fix up their "toy."

Others have mentioned previous concerns with this group being able to get the engine fixed, and then failing to be a responsible custodian. It seems that these fears were realized. It needn't have been. Both the Austin and Pine Bluff groups were close enough to lend a hand, which I am sure was offered, and I have heard that there were various levels of "no thanks, we got it covered."

The other bottom line is this: When the new rules were promulgated, there was a big push to get two water glasses on every backhead (I still like a set of try cocks-I do know how to use them) but it doesn't make a hill of beans if the entire back of the boiler is transparent if there isn't a set of eyes on it with a brain attached to do the right thing.

To quote the late, great Dante Porta "One doesn't know what one doesn't know until one knows it."

Or as Jerry Clower put it" Some folks is educated beyond their intellegence."

All of what you said is true......too much ego,not enough brains. I like two water glasses and a tri cock,but I was recently involved with a railroad which removed the tri cocks because they did not feel they were necessary,over the objection of the crews which ran it! I was glad to leave!

This is the first I've heard about all this and I feel sick to my stomach just reading about it. Hopefully, the FRA won't come down too hard on the industry. The 745 was displayed at Audobon Park in NO over the weekend. Anyone know how it went?

I just saw a photo of 745 somewhere from last weekend and they were taking down the rods again prior to moving it a couple miles back home. What's that all about?

Since the boiler is Form 8, they can only tow it .I believe she was towed to Audubon Park this past weekend for display.

Sounds like: they had bad fuel, needed to keep time to avoid an uncomfortable situation with KCS dispatchers, and started trading water for steam. Maybe "under control" for a few miles, then a change in track grade, all the water flows forward, injectors on, but too late, and "pop" the crownsheet is glowing.

The 745 is equipped with a feedwater heater and an injector. The plugs blew going uphill on Rich Mountain.....