I will not be able to attend the upcoming ARM/TRAIN convention due to other obligations made long ago. I hope that sometime during the meeting the subject of expanding the NRHS Railcamp program can be discussed and those organizations present can be polled to see how many are willing to participate in an expansion.
As has been often discussed here one of our biggest challenges as an industry is to begin an effective program/campaign to begin bringing young people into our ranks to insure that there are those who will carry the torch onward.
It would seem to me that the proven success of Railcamp (albeit on the very limited scale it has been done to date) is a strong model to expand on? Last years expansion to 2 locations went very well so why not next go to 5 then 10 and eventually perhaps as many as say 50??
It is my understanding that a meaningful percentage of the youngsters who have attended the program over the past decade at Scranton have become active in the industry and a number of them are now in management roles at one of the Class1's or Amtrak.
As always money is a consideration, I believe there is an opportunity here to partner with the Class1's-Regionals so as to be able to offset some/most of the expenses of educating the youngsters with scholarships from the Class1's-Regionals on the basis of this program planting the seeds for tomorrows crop of railroad employees. As has been frequently discussed in recent years the railroads have found it increasingly tough finding quality candidates at all levels interested in joining the industry, and if Railcamp could be expanded to say 50 sites each putting 20 youngsters a summer through a 2 week program that's a 1000 potential future recruits/year.
As education is one of the hallmark themes of Mark Bassetts excellent work at the NN Ry. I'm hopeful that Mark can at least get the discussion started at Sacramento??
Ross Rowland

Ross,

What a great thought. This would be something that most any chapter of the NRHS could try to pull off. I am sure many could ever get help from shortlines or class I railroads as well.

Tom Gears

My understanding is that the Railcamp program is funded from a grant, and the available funding per year is very limited.

Class 1s, Amtrak, and Commuter Rail operators are already supporting extensive and expensive internal training programs to make up for the lack of support for vocational and technical training in the public schools, a problem that has been discussed elsewhere on this forum.

Getting them to contribute significant financial support to a training program run by the NRHS could be very challenging.

Well if the current Railcamp program is grant supported then obviously funding an increase in the Grant would be a mandatory step in expanding the program.
The industry is spending big bucks both recruting and training new hires- that's true. What an expanded Railcamp type program could address is planting the seed of knowledge/enthusiasm in a good number of High Schoolers each year so that they would include a possible career in railroading in their thinking. The class 1's will tell you that their first hurdle in attracting candidates is that the overwhelming majority of youngsters today aren't even aware that the industry exists!
Seems to me that a widely expanded Railcamp type program could put a meaningful dent in this AND produce a new crop of future rail preservationists to give us people to carry our torch into the future???
At the very least let's hope it gets discussed at Sacramento!
Ross Rowland

Nice concept but I have doubts whether any CMO on a Class 1 or Amtrak or Commuter Rail could be convinced to go to the boss to support it. There are industry groups they could go to instead. The NRHS is a non-industry group with no academic accreditation. Suppose the CMO of a commuter rail operation goes to the Railcamp section of the NRHS website to see how they promote the program. First thing encountered is a picture of a steam locomotive, then he takes a look at the list of activities and sees they are cutting outlines of steam locomotives out of steel plate, followed by an evening of looking at videotapes of steam locomotives, or maybe a nice slide-music program on steam locomotives. Not only does it not look very relevant to the modern rail industry, but you can do some of the shop activities in your basement, you don't need to travel halfway across the country and run up motel bills to do them.

Consider also that one of the present problems of the NRHS is their inability to let anybody outside the NRHS know who they are and what they are doing. There are several chapters in my area, most of them can't get their meeting notices out on time, don't provide any description of their programs and activities, and make no effort to use local media to promote their activities. The result is that they are almost completely unknown in the railroad industry just as they are among the general public. Oh, and by the way, if you offer to do a program for them they usually never get back to you about it, because programs on how the railroad operates or how locomotives function, or on railroad history, are of no interest to them, they are strictly into pretty picture shows.

As an NRHS member I attend meetings of the local chapters, some of the pretty picture shows are very good. I also attend the railroad club meetings (the organization of those of us who operate 1:1 scale diesels and electric locomotives around here). I never see anyone else from the NRHS chapters at the industry meetings. They are two worlds almost completely removed from each other. There are a couple industry people in the local NMRA group (National Model Railroad Association). When I ask them why they don't belong to NRHS they usually say it doesn't offer anything that interests them.

A lot of industry people DO turn up at the railroad speakers program at a local library, probably because serious programs of technical and historical interest are welcomed there.

So it is a nice idea, but if you want to get the industry involved you may be working with the wrong messenger. Selling Railcamp in its present advertised form to the management team at any major railroad would be very difficult.

MX (not my real name)

I hate to verbally disparage an organization to which I belong, but the reality is that all of these problems appear to be systemic and deeply ingrained. We've already rehashed a multitude of these syndromes on this forum in other threads, so I won't rehash them here. Suffice it to say, however, that as much as programs like Railcamp are crucial to the future of the hobby and industry, it still seems way too much of an "insider" clique and not any form of outreach. I just received my October 2006 "NRHS News" newsletter, and was happy to see a young female face in the photo of a Railcamp event. My pleasure was restrained considerably when I saw that the lass had the same quite unusual last name as the Steamtown mechanic giving the presentation--presumably a case of "preaching to the choir" that could have been held off for "Take Your Daughter To Work Day". Not that I oppose nepotism--after all, I doubt Linn Moedinger got where he was without a family tie or two--but we definitely need to reach out to young folks that are interested in trains and don't just happen to be the railfan's son.

One Chapter that I belong to has offered to sponsor an attendee from the area to go to Railcamp. As far as I can tell, little if any effort was actually expended in seeking out a worthy attendee. Hell, I doubt any of us even KNOW OF a young rail enthusiast. Why not a flyer at the hobby shop, the train show, etc.?

Another factor to consider: The NRHS, R&LHS, etc, all seemingly wrap themselves around "fallen flag" railroads--hardly surprising since the word "historical" is involved. There IS a generation of young railfans out there who do think in terms of Amtrak, CSX, NS, BNSF, etc. but they seem to share two syndromes: 1) an antagonistic attitude towards the railroads they pursue (look at how much internet forum traffic is spent disparaging "The Chicken S**t eXpress", "Nazi Southern," The Coast Starlate", etc.); and 2) almost none of them could ever be persuaded to join the NRHS, R&LHS, etc, if you put a gun to their heads. Oh, steam? What's that?

Britain has come up with a multitude of excuses to hold major rail extravaganzas such as Shildon (Stockton & Darlington 150), Rainhill 150, GWR 150, etc. The last big rail event I can think of in the US? Sacramento's Railfairs. Before that? Chicago Railroad Fair 1948, or the beginning of Amtrak in 1971. Maybe the railroad industry needs to hold a show in Chicago to demonstrate and showcase the environmental efficiency of railroading? Maybe a moving showcase going to Philly, Atlanta, Chicago, Denver, Houston, etc.?

I will be attending TRAIN/ARM and I would be happy to speak to anyone about our RailCamp experience. The short version is that it was a success. Yes we did have a few bumps but at the end of the week it was very worth while.

First, there is no secret to setting up a RailCamp program. It is easy, ask the NRHS. I dropped a few e-mails. Barry Smith came to Ely in 2005 checked out the property, we talked and came up with a program. One of our staff members attended the 2005 RailCamp in Steamtown. The Nevada Northern held two RailCamps, one for teens and one for adults.

The NRHS let us design our own program and limit the number of participants to 12. We did this because we thought there was too much standing around at Steamtown. Nothing against their program we wanted to try something different (and the truth be told we were a little nervous and thought a smaller group would be easier to handle.)

We also developed our own program. It was not better or worse than Steamtown just different. Our first full day was orientation and going over the rulebook, then the group was split into three teams of 4. On the second, third, and fourth days the teams rotated through operations, shop and track. The days started early and ended late. When you have teenagers falling asleep at the dinner table, you know you have done something right. We had programs every evening that were presentations by the participants. We were fortunate, the copper mine offered a tour and we have a historic hot springs nearby that available for a picnic one evening.

The fifth day, was graduation day. We took our RS-3 and went to the ore yard. Everyone rotated being a brakeman, switchman and engineer. The scenario was that you needed to move from one track to another and couple up to a hopper car. Connect the air, test the brakes and then take the car to a different track and put the locomotive back at the starting point. The handbrake was at the top of the car so the brakeman had to climb the ladder to set and release the brake. Everyone threw switches, coupled and uncoupled, set brakes, released brakes, and operated the locomotive. And yes before anyone asks, all participants had our rulebook and were tested on it. (You should have seen the eyes get large, when the test was presented.)

In reading the previous posts on the NRHS, I think it is very evident that we need to look in the mirror. Or to quote POGO, “We have met the enemy and it is us.” I think there has been a little too much NRHS bashing.

The NRHS was very easy to work with. We set up a program in less than a year. But the real point is that the NRHS did not come to us, we went to them. And they allowed us to develop a program and make changes. Nothing was forced on us, it was a true partnership.

We had the FIRST Adult RailCamp ever! Why is that? Folks its not rocket science. And I’ll let you in on another secret, the teenage campers, built about three hundred feet of track in three days. They drilled ties, placed ties, placed rail, spiked and tamped. It helped us tremendously. Tom Sawyer has nothing on us. I got teenagers to pay for the privilege to come to Ely and work like dogs for week.

And I was so happy with the program that in 2007 there will be two adult railcamps and one teen camp. In 2008, we will have one adult, one teen and one advance RailCamp.

It can be done folks, but you need to get up and start moving. I’ve been meaning to write up our experience and I will do so in the near future. Those of you who want more information contact me. Meanwhile our website has been updated with next year’s information. Here’s the link:
http://www.nevadanorthernrailway.net/Ra ... 202007.htm


PS Please don't use the excuse that we have more to offer than your operation. If you have a locomotive, cars and tracks you can put together a program. Again it is not rocket science, but it is work.

Why not indeed. We had space for 12 but could only attract 10. And also why don't we know any "young rail enthusiast?"

Remember POGO!

Funding for the teenage RailCamp comes from several different sources:

1) Scholarships provided from income from a relatively small endowed fund that NRHS runs

2) Scholarships provided by NRHS chapters and other interested entities (such as RailPace)

3) The families of some of the RailCampers,

4) Donations, and.

5) Since it's inception, the NRHS sponsored RailCamps have *never* operated in the black and any the difference has been made up by unrestricted NRHS funds.

I'm sure that any financial support the readers and users of RYPN could provide would be more than welcome.

Bob H

Bob, I'm so glad you've clarified this. As a former RailCamper, and current RailCamp counselor, this program has so much potential. People like Mr. Bassett are right on the money in supporting it. I hope to attend the adult version next summer if the schedule allows, as I was suppose to make it out to document the previous session, but had obligations with the 3751 before the date.

This is an exciting time for RailCamp.

Kelly Lynch

The Railroad Passenger Alliance has funded one or two scholarships each year for Railcamp for several years now. And most of the funds come from passing the hat at the annual Conference banquet.
Some of the recipients were related to RPCA memebrs, but others are newcomers at member museums, tourist lines, and PV operators.
I expect that the Rail Camp scholarship collection will continue to be successful at the 2007 Conference, January 12-15, in San Jose CA (shameless plug).

Francis Wong
RPCA 2007 Conference Coordinator