Dumb question time.

Almost every time I've seen a railroad that has a roundhouse and turntable getting a steam loco ready in the AM, the engine sits half on, half off the turntable while building pressure. I suppose the locks that hold the table bridge in place are reliable, but seeing this still makes me slightly uncomfortable. Plus, there's the relative narrowness of the bridge deck itself, which has to be a hazard for crews. Is there some advantage to leaving the loco partially on, partially off the turntable bridge? Or am I overestimating the potential hazards?

Matt:

I wonder if this might have something to do with the amount of "lead" between the roundhouse doors and the turntable itself. We have just recently redrawn our plan for the location of our turntable because the spot originally chosen would not have allowed the 100' necessary to pull our C&O Kanawha out of its future roundhouse stall without putting it onto the turntable. Perhaps the shortness of this "lead" is the reason that established operators put part of the engine onto the turntable during steaming up operations.

Just a thought.

Les

Most roundhouses didn't have many through tracks. Many roundhouses were designed to have the tender near the narrow part of the building near the turntable and the front of the loco with the smokestack near the wide far end of the building at the end of the track. This allowed more space at the sides to work on the more complicated end of the beast. A smokejack or chimney was often placed there to try to let some of the exhaust get outside if the loco's fire was burning while in the building. With this layout, if you want to start the loco's fire with its smoke stack and fumes outdoors, the whole loco must be backed out of its stall. Space constraints may force the tender to be on the turntable if the smokestack is outdoors.
Did railroads use compressed air or central plant steam to charge the boiler enough to get a cold loco out the door in the morning?
Some roads like Santa Fe may have painted the loco number on the rear of the tender so you could identify it as soon as you opened the stall door, instead of having to walk to the cab.

If it's a picture, how do you know it isn't moving more to get to it's steaming place? In nice weather, we steam up with the nose outside the roundhouse door to keep the smoke out of the roundhouse, never partway on the turntable as that blocks it for other movements.

Tom C.

You are worrying needlessly. The table is mechanically locked in place, and this lock incorporates an interlock that disables the power to the table, to prevent tearing up the rails by accidently moving the table, with the lock in place. Many tables had a tightly focused light to let the crew know when the table was safe to enter. An unlocked table would be a different story, but a smart person would not move equipment onto or off an unlocked table, especially if he wanted to keep his job.
The deck is wide enough on the sides to move easily by the equipment, and has a smooth walking surface, and a railing, which makes it safer than walking up and down the stairs in your house. At least, it is that way in the Brooklyn roundhouse, in Portland.
The lead to the table is short because the purpose of a roundhouse is to get the greatest number of stalls from the least space. The engine just fits through the doors, but there is a lot of space at the front, where most of the work is done, and if needed the engine could be backed in to work on the rear, which is why some stalls have a smoke jack on either end.
A longer lead would require a larger building, thus increasing construction costs, and wasting precious land, and back in steam days, most roundhouses were built completely around the table, leaving one or two tracks for access, and egress. The same reasonning applies to a building with fewer stalls.
Since modern diesels do not have to face in one direction, like a steam engine, no turntable is needed, so diesel shops are rectangular.
Shop steam was supplied to cold engines.

Rich

Just an aside, but when I first came to work in St Albans, the turntable I ran only had locks on four tracks, the rest were supposedly held in place by a band-type brake, which often had little braking ability. As we sometimes pulled dead engines with another via a cable from an adjacent track, this presented a bad situation, so I convinced them to add a pin for all of the tracks. While the former situation never caused a problem that I know of, it just didn't make much sense, as many things don't on the railroad.

Also, I don't recall any way to lock the tracks on the table in Burlington, just a brake if I remember right. Also most all diesels today are unidirectional, especially the wide cabs with desktop controls. They can be run backwards, but it is uncomfortable, inconvenient and dangerous to do so. There are still a few with dual controls (mostly old N&W), and a few that have a short hood, but are set up to run long hood forward that are former N&W or Southern. These are typically run short hood forward anyway, with many complaints from the crew, or placed as middle units.

What made me think of it was a picture of EBT #14 being steamed up that I have as one of my computer desktop pix. But I've seen it live several times, as well -- at the EBT, at the TN Valley Ry in Chattanooga, and at least one other place I can't recall offhand. Scranton, maybe? In all cases where I've seen it in person, the engine was stopped half on, half off the bridge. That always puzzled me but I never had a chance to ask anybody until now.

I figured they did it to have room around the front and not smoke up the roundhouse, but it still seems like a bit of a risk to be partially on the turntable, especially when there are other tracks available that don't require you being halfway on the table bridge. There is that rule that states that when in doubt, the safest course must be taken, after all!

BTW, during the short time I volunteered at Spencer, before settling on SCRM because it was closer to home, the turntable there was in awful shape. I ran it once. Only one point of the trolley-type controller worked in each direction, and the mechanical brake would barely stop the thing. I don't remember if the locks worked at that time or not, it's just been too long ago (we're talking 1994). It's since been completely restored, and everything works the way it's supposed to.

.

At TVRM we often shot the rods while the engine was on the table. The reasons were the walkway provided a work area that was reasonably clean and level to work on. This offered a reduced chance of getting dirt in the grease and a safer working environment. Usually we shot the rods at the end of the day. I assume TVRM still shoots the rods on the table whenever possible.

Neither the turntable at East Chattanooga or the one at Spencer have locks. At Spencer I saw the table shift under the Southern E unit when the front truck came on the tabe during one of their Rail days. Fortunately the rails still lined up enough to get the engine back onto the lead track without much trouble. I am not sure the rear truck would have made it off the table had they kept going.

The 610 derailed comming off the East Chattanooga table at TVRM a few years ago. The table shifted when the balance dropped and 610 could not stop before the pony truck rolled off the end of the track. I am not sure of all the details but the pony wheels lined up with the rail on the table when the engine stopped. Paul Brock set a few blocks and backed 610 back onto the rails with my wife watching to be sure they came back to the gage. I think they were back on in 10 minutes or so and 610 did not miss a trip.

Locks on a turntable are a very good idea. I have little worry about an engine sitting with half its drivers on and half off the table. How much more locked could you be? The problems start when the table shifts under a moving locomotive.

John Bohon

In my many observations of the EBT morning steam up, it has always been with the locomotive fully in the roundhouse. What was the date of your photo? Now when they are cleaning the fire, the front of the locmotive is on the table and the rest off. That is due to the position of the ash pit. As Kelley said, they have locks on both end of the turntable and at least one is always engaged before a locomotive enters the turntable.