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| CPR 1098 at Orangeville, Ontario https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22024 |
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| Author: | bobyar2001 [ Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | CPR 1098 at Orangeville, Ontario |
On a doubleheaded 1959 excursion. Trailing engine 1092 did not survive. http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=595671 |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CPR 1098 at Orangeville, Ontario and crewman |
Bob - TERRIFIC PICTURE! Not for the 1098 per se (although she looks good), but the crewman on the outside of her cab. Our C&O 2-8-4 Kanawha #2789 has a similar grab iron over the cab window and toe edge walkway below the window. I assumed that this was for a member of the crew to be able to do what the crewman of 1098 is doing, but I had never seen any evidence until this photo. Thank you....thank you....thank you! Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana) |
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| Author: | bobyar2001 [ Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CPR 1098 at Orangeville, Ontario and crewman |
I'm not sure, but I think the grab rail and toe board may have been to facilitate washing the outside of one window that could not be washed from the inside, as its outside surface would be covered by the other fixed window when slid open. We had an old Alco switcher like that and the only way one could wash the rear side windows was with a longhandled brush or a ladder. |
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| Author: | Gary Gray [ Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CPR 1098 at Orangeville, Ontario and crewman |
The grab rail & toe board was to provide access from the cab to the running boards without getting down on the ground. (OSHA would have a cow about this nowadays). I have used them (in my younger, more agile days) on a number of locomotives including a 2-8-0 now undergoing restoration in TN, a 2-8-2 parked at the same location, and a streamlined 4-8-4 that I'm pretty familiar with. Look closely just below the cab stripe on the photo below. On the N&W Class J's the toe boards were recessed. http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=156974 |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CPR 1098 at Orangeville, Ontario and crewman |
Gary Gray wrote: The grab rail & toe board was to provide access from the cab to the running boards without getting down on the ground. (OSHA would have a cow about this nowadays). I have used them (in my younger, more agile days) on a number of locomotives including a 2-8-0 now undergoing restoration in TN, a 2-8-2 parked at the same location, and a streamlined 4-8-4 that I'm pretty familiar with. Look closely just below the cab stripe on the photo below. On the N&W Class J's the toe boards were recessed.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=156974 Gary - Thanks. Access to the locomotives running boards is what I thought they were for. Now, I can recall reading of firemen having to use the running boards of an engine WHILE RUNNING to find out why the sand wasn't flowing, to fix a rope on the bell, or some other repair. Can you imagine using the grab rail and toe board while running at say, 40 m.p.h., to get out on the running board? Or doing it during a rainstorm? Or snow? Hard to believe that it was actually done, but was it? And oh yeah Gary, OSHA would definitely have a cow today! And maybe a horse and a pig too! Les |
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| Author: | bobyar2001 [ Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Safety appliances |
To my knowledge, OSHA has nothing to do with safety appliances on locomotives and cars, rather the FRA, and previously the ICC. That said, some of the people who design such ladders, handholds, sill steps, etc., have obviously never used them in real life. On boxcars, there is often barely enough space between the ladders and carbody to get your toes onto and many tankcars have a grab bar across the end that does not line up with the sill step, creating a dangerous body imbalance. Very few cars have a non-slip coating applied to sill steps and handholds, and on a new car with shiny paint, it is like greased death when there is a light coating of frost. Though most railroads use the word safety in every other sentence, few make any real investment in making the property or equipment safer. It's much easier to pass out trinkets with safety slogans and note potential hazards in daily bulletins, then discipline the employee if he gets hurt in the dark at -10F at 3AM. With the recent ruling to apply reflective tape to the sides of freight cars to help prevent mid-train auto collisions at crossings, I noted that nothing was said about applying such reflectors on the end of cars. For the trainman with his feeble 6-volt lantern, the few cars that do have reflectors are a lot safer when they're coming at you in the dark. Oncoming flatcars, gondolas and black tankcars are especially dangerous. Knowing that amending the legislation to add these reflectors would be a long and difficult process, I wrote to the top safety man at our multi-billion dollar company, suggesting that when cars are crippled and the side reflectors applied, they simply be applied to the ends as well. I figured if concerned employees at the other class ones contacted their safety officers likewise, the task could be accomplished easily and our work would be safer. I expected the usual polite "we'll look into your suggestion" brush-off, but he replied that "although some car owners have elected to apply reflectors to the ends of cars, it is not something [our company] nor the railroad industry intends to do". I replied that, with his attitude, I now understand why our main line is so heavily overgrown with brush that it impossible to walk a train in many areas, and that real safety requires investment, not just slogans on a key chain. Also, that I now really understood why our unions did not wish to give up FELA. I've since begun work at amending the legislation through the UTU, and hope to see that grossly overpaid idiot eat his words before I die. |
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| Author: | DrewA [ Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Safety appliances |
I read a story in Trains one time about how a fireman got some throttle time while the hogger went out to hammer on the sand pipes to clear some wet sand. The fireman got down to shovel a couple times, got back up and no engineer in sight. Not on the other side of the boiler either. He goes back and looks back down the train, then hears the engineer hammering on the other side. The engineer had just stopped to adjust the headlight. But it made me wonder how many times someone lost a crew member doing things like this. I never realized how dangerous railroading is until I started working around one. Now, I'm thinking about joining the union. Anyone have any good exhibits highlighting the dangers of the occupation besides Operation Lifesaver stuff? |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: In the cab. |
DrewA wrote: I read a story in Trains one time about how a fireman got some throttle time while the hogger went out to hammer on the sand pipes to clear some wet sand. The fireman got down to shovel a couple times, got back up and no engineer in sight. Not on the other side of the boiler either. He goes back and looks back down the train, then hears the engineer hammering on the other side. The engineer had just stopped to adjust the headlight. But it made me wonder how many times someone lost a crew member doing things like this.
I never realized how dangerous railroading is until I started working around one. Now, I'm thinking about joining the union. Anyone have any good exhibits highlighting the dangers of the occupation besides Operation Lifesaver stuff? Drew - Great story! This is exactly what I was talking about. I have talked to visitors to our museum at times about crew members doing exactly what you mentioned. I wonder how often it happened. My guess is that it was only an occassional problem. But even then it was too much! Hope you are able to find what you are looking for concerning operational concerns. Les |
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| Author: | Jason Whiteley [ Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: In the cab. |
These toe-rails and grab irons are common on older CNR engines. My grandfather (a brakeman) noted they would often exit the cab via the window instead of climbing over seats and squeeze through the doorway. If anyone has a copy of Two Divisions to Bluewater by Peter Bowers, there's a picture of one of the crew exiting a ten-wheeler via the window. If I can figure out how to post it I will. Jason |
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| Author: | John Bohon [ Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CPR 1098 at Orangeville, Ontario and crewman |
Yes Les I can imagine doing this trick at 40. Like Gary I have done this on that certain 2-8-0 in TN but we were probably only going 25 at the time. I do not recall the reason for the maneuver but the view of the rods was great. I have ridden the running boards of several locomotives for various reasons. As long as the weather is good the experience is not as frightening as one may think. When I first started on the railroad footboards were still legal and I used them often. I am still unhappy the feds made us remove them from the locomotives. In my opinion they were a lot easier than working off the corner steps. John Bohon |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CPR 1098 at Orangeville, Ontario and crewman |
Gary Gray wrote: The grab rail & toe board was to provide access On the N&W Class J's the toe boards were recessed.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=156974 Thanks for pointing it out Gary. I hadn't realized the J's were like that. Les |
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| Author: | G. W. Laepple [ Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: In the cab. |
On the other hand, I read an ICC accident report from the early 30s that described the demise of a fireman who was went out on the front of the engine to find out why it wasn't drafting properly. Seems not all the smokebox door dogs were properly fastened, and when he attempted to make the repair while the engine was still moving and working, the door blew open and knocked him off the engine at about 35 mph. |
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