Does anybody know the as-built color of the 1910 Western Pacific steel passenger cars built by Pullman? It would be logical that they were Rio Grande dark red, but logic may not be correct.

The two former D&RGW passenger cars from the Everett Rohrer collection now at the Heber Valley Railroad were originally Western Pacific cars built by Pullman in 1910.

Stan -

Glad to hear that two other WP (D&RGW) cars from this original order to the Pullman Company, still exist. The car at Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum in North Judson, Indiana (of which I am half owner) was ordered by the Denver & Rio Grande and delivered as WP #302. It was returned to the D&RG along with the other 40 day coaches in the original order and given D&RG number 899. After the D&RG reorganized as the Denver & Rio Grande Western, the car was renumbered 930. Many of the cars were eventually air conditioned but some (like 302/899/930) was not and kept its original open window configuration. After World War 2, a number were sold to the Algoma Central & Hudson Bay where the car was given number 407. Eventually it was sold to the Michigan Northern (number unknown), then the Boyne City Railroad. It eventually ended up on the Kalamazoo, Lake Shore & Chicago where it was numbered 950 and also (incorrectly) carried number 407. My partner and I rescued it when it was in danger of being scrapped.

The car has carried many different paint schemes but I am not sure whether it was originally pullman green (which I suspect) or dark red. One other car from the KLS&C exists, as part of a restaurant north of Kalamazoo, Michigan sans seats and with two entry ways cut into the side of the car for access from the restaurant building. There was also another car from this series on a tourist line called the Laurel Highlands Railroad, but I am not sure what became of that car.

What are the numbers of your two cars Stan?

Les Beckman (HVRM)

Heber Valley 7508 started life as Western Pacific 338, renumbered D&RG 916 prior to 1916, rebuilt to air conditioned parlor coach 973 in 1935, renumbered 1008 in 1955. Went to the Everett Rohrer collection in 1968, renumbered 7508 then to Heber Valley Railroad in 1999.

Heber Valley 7510 had a similar history. It started life as Western Pacific 324, renumbered D&RG 910 prior to 1916, rebuilt to air conditioned parlor coach 967 in 1934, renumbered 1010 in 1955. Sold to the Barter Machinery & Supply Company in 1968 then went to the Everett Rohrer collection, probably 1968, renumbered 7510 then to Heber Valley Railroad in 1999.

Herbert Danneman supplied the information about the cars early history.

There is a 1916 photo of D&RG 915 in the Utah State Historical Society photo archives.

D&RG passenger cars were red prior to 1918 when they were painted Pullman Green, so these were red from the 1916 D&RG renumbering until the 1918 Pullman Green. But what about 1910-1916? Somewhere there should some information, but we may never know for sure.

The original color information may be part of the Pullman construction specifications. The specifications for this order may be in IRM's Pullman collection. These are organized by lot number (construction order number). From the Smithsonian photo negative list comes the information that the 1910 WP coaches were built on lot number 3726.

For availability and reproduction costs contact the IRM Pullman Collection archivists.

http://www.irm.org/about/contactus.html
http://www.irm.org/history/pullmanlibrary.html

Thank you.

I have a request on the way to IRM Pullman Archives.

I will post any information I receive as soon as possible.

I checked Brian's response and suggest that his recommendation is not the way to go, as replies from the general IRM website may be slow in coming to me if at all. The best way is to contact the Pullman Library by mail, and as a backup to e-mail Ted Anderson (me) or Bob Webber of the D&RG Historical Society who is also a volunteer in the Pullman Library. My e-mail is tedander@core.com. The mailing address is:
Pullman Library
Illinois Railway Museum
P. O. Box 427
Union, IL 60180
We are also at the Pullman Library on Wednesdays from 10 am to 4:30 pm CST & CDT depending on the season, phone 815-923-2020.
With regard to your specific request, there is a possibility that the specification and drawing list exists for this lot, given in one of the posts. The specifications in the files go back to lot 2900 (1903), forward to the early 50's. Bob has recently updated the files with numbered archival hanging file folders so we at last can safely look through them with less chance of damage. The early spec's are really brief so I cannot tell ahead of time if this one will help with regard to color. Their copy cost is $15, later specs may be more, and a signed license is required for any material from the library. Do not send money until we determine availability.
Sincerely, Ted Anderson, IRM PUllman Library curator