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PRR 4800
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22302		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  bobyar2001 [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  PRR 4800
The first GG1, here at Enola, Pennsylvania in 1976, when everything in sight was being painted red, white and blue:

http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?a ... anColl.jpg
Author:  Joshua K. Blay [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PRR 4800
This paint scheme, among many others, was found when the engine was stripped within the past couple years. I for one would like to see it back in this scheme, albeit an expensive proposition.

JKB
Author:  H.O. [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PRR 4800
Please, not that garish bicentenial scheme.

The only PROPER paint scheme for this historic locomotive would be her original PRR dress. This is the "class" locomotive and deserves a classy paint scheme. In fact, the only paint scheme that looks "right" on a GG1 is PRR Brunswick Green (black, choose on striping - but I prefer the "cat whiskers.") or Tuscan with "cat whiskers." It should suffice to have some sort of plaque that could be displayed near the 4800 with pictures of the other schemes she has worn over the years.
Author:  Dave Lewandoski [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PRR 4800
H.O. wrote:
Please, not that garish bicentenial scheme.

The only PROPER paint scheme for this historic locomotive would be her original PRR dress. This is the "class" locomotive and deserves a classy paint scheme. In fact, the only paint scheme that looks "right" on a GG1 is PRR Brunswick Green (black, choose on striping - but I prefer the "cat whiskers.") or Tuscan with "cat whiskers." It should suffice to have some sort of plaque that could be displayed near the 4800 with pictures of the other schemes she has worn over the years.


i agree, not just a GG1, but any piece of history.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Devil's Advocate returns.........
There are something like twelve GG1's out there in some form of preservation. Most can only wear Brunswick green or PC black, with a couple possibly eligible for Amtrak platinum mist or Tuscan red. 4800 was the only Bicentennial G, and the only G to wear Conrail blue.

Repeat after me: It's just paint.

Those who actually remember that early prototype paint scheme on 4800 are at the minimum collecting Social Security. (I was going to say something about walkers or wheelchairs, but...) Meanwhile, there are folks of my generation who found the Bicentennial colors of 4800 not only a celebration of a nation's Bicentennial, but a flash of color and hope in a then-dismal cesspool of Conrail that had just robbed us of our Reading, LV, L&HR, EL, etc. Painting 4800 in its Bicentennial colors, although probably a painstaking project, would make 4800 and kin suddenly relevant to "us" again--something we can relate to. Let's not wait until 2026, OK? And it'll do until we have the first ordered-by-Conrail GP40-2 to preserve.......

Yes, history is important. But it's for naught if nobody left cares.
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Devil's Advocate returns.........
It is only paint, but ugly paint is uncalled for!
I'd love to see several GG1's in a variety of their operational color schemes, however. Particularly the silver and red, which I remember as a boy, passing Sunnyside Yard.
Author:  davew833 [ Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #4800
#4800, at least last time I saw her in May of 2006, sits in black primer behind other equipment outside the display yard at RRMPA. I think having her on display in ANY accurate paint scheme would be preferable to how she is now.
Author:  JimBoylan [ Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #4800
The black primer should do for the Penn Central "mating worms" version. For a splash of color, could the "C" be red?
Author:  Mark S Bassett [ Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Devil's Advocate returns.........an example
We are just finishing up the refurbishment of Outfit Car 06. The car was built by GTW in 1872 for Pullman. It was a beautiful car. The car during the first half of its service life on the NN Ry was in Pullman Green, lettered baggage and displaying a very unique REA logo.

After passenger service ended, the car became an outfit car. It was painted a solid boxcar red with white lettering. This is the scheme that we went with. Would the Pullman green be “prettier” you bet. But the Outfit designation is more unusual and broadens the interpretive value of the car. Yes, lots of your visitors know that people traveled by train, but did they know that workers lived in them for months at a time? Part of the long term plan would be to let people spend the night in it again on museum property.

My vote would be the for the Bicentennial paint scheme. This was a very unusual time in railroading history where railroads showed pride not only in themselves but also in our nation. It was a positive head turning event between the railroads and society. If nothing else, it would remind us that there is a possibility of such an event in the future. If we did it once, then we could do it again.
Author:  Kevin Gillespie [ Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Devil's Advocate returns.........an example
Mark,

If Conrail had chosen ANY GG-1 other than prototype 4800 for the Bicentennial scheme, I would say go for it. However, as the prototype of what is arguably the most successful electric locomotive in American history, I think she must be restored as built.

I have mixed feelings about your baggage car. But since it is not a historic prototype, I trust your judgment. Furthermore, I support any effort that will help attract the next generation to trains, and keep these machines operating for generations after you and I have gone to that great engine terminal in the sky.

I am looking forward to the day when I can visit the NN myself. I saw pictures of #40 as an impressionable teenager when Ron Ziel's Twilight of the Steam Locomotive first came out. I hope I get to make her acquaintance.

Respectfully yours,

Kevin Gillespie
Author:  Mark S Bassett [ Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Devil's Advocate returns.........an example
Kevin,
I think ADM IV said it best. There are plenty of other examples out there, but there is only one GG-1 that can wear the Bicentennial paint.

Quote:
There are something like twelve GG1's out there in some form of preservation. Most can only wear Brunswick green or PC black, with a couple possibly eligible for Amtrak platinum mist or Tuscan red. 4800 was the only Bicentennial G, and the only G to wear Conrail blue.


And then there is the bigger issue of getting the issue across that railroads are relevant and mesh with society. (We can save that for another day.)

Quote:
I have mixed feelings about your baggage car. But since it is not a historic prototype, I trust your judgment.


It is a historic protype for the Nevada Northern Railway. It spent about 51 years in the boxcar red. In fact we repainted it from a garish orange-yellowish color. And why was it a yellowish orange color?

Because one of my predecessors though it should be painted that color for Hollywood. The car is in a z movie called Once Upon a Texas Train. And it was painted this color because, “that’s what people will expect.” So in a sense we could paint it back to this color as an example of what not to do.

The full story on the 06 is on our website it’s a two parter

http://www.nevadanorthernrailway.net/th ... 012607.htm

and

http://www.nevadanorthernrailway.net/th ... 011207.htm


Quote:
I am looking forward to the day when I can visit the NN myself. I saw pictures of #40 as an impressionable teenager when Ron Ziel's Twilight of the Steam Locomotive first came out. I hope I get to make her acquaintance.


Come on down, one of the catalysts that got me into this job is that in the newsletter many years ago, there appeared an article that said, "40's tubes have expired and we don't have the money so we will put it on static display" I thought that would be a travesty. Now due to the efforts of lots of people 40 is steaming again.
Author:  JimBoylan [ Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Devil's Advocate returns.........an example
Kevin Gillespie wrote:
If Conrail had chosen ANY GG-1 other than prototype 4800 for the Bicentennial scheme, I would say go for it. However, as the prototype, I think she must be restored as built.
"Old Rivets" is unique, at least for its non-welded body. Might 4801, which may have been renumbered, be the better "class" loco that has to be in original paint?
Author:  Howard P. [ Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Devil's Advocate returns.........an example
Don't think 4801 was renumbered; it was the first welded ("classic"?) G, and it was apparently the last one to wear the five stripes. I shot it at Morrisville Pa in December 1970, very filthy, but the stripes were very visible. It also had a rather fresh block of black with a pair of white PC worms on them- one on each side. The numbers were untouched. Interestingly, Black River & Western #60 was about 200 feet away, getting ready to head back home (live and with a BR&W caboose) over the Bel-Del after some running gear work in the M-ville shop.
Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Devil's Advocate returns.........an example
Please excuse my ignorance, but does #4801 still exist?

Les
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Devil's Advocate returns.........an example
Quote:
Please excuse my ignorance, but does #4801 still exist?


Nope. In fact, of the "freight GG1's" (as a rule, 4800-4890 or so were typically assigned to freight and the higher-numbered 4900's were regarded as "passenger G's", although they ran where they had to until Amtrak and PC/Conrail made the divisions formal via Amtrak acquiring theirs), only 4800 and 4859 survived. The primary reason that so many passenger G's survived was that it was Amtrak that found a way to sell them off to qualified preservationists for $5,000 each, while Conrail was forced to get full scrap value (around $30,000 at the time) for their lot. The Lancaster NRHS came up with the cash to buy 4800; 4859 was acquired via a swap of an Amtrak G and some cash to Naporano Iron & Metal in New Jersey for the one the Harrisburg NRHS really wanted.

Incidentally, at least one, maybe two, of the NJ Transit fleet (I'm thinking 4880 or 4883) retained its single Pennsy broadstripe, with fading keystone seeping through the black paint, right on up to its last trip to the scrapyard.
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