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Crown Metal Products 4-4-0
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Author:  steaminfo [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Crown Metal Products 4-4-0
During the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, an operable 36" gauge Crown 4-4-0 was removed from a Kuwaiti amusement park and transported to Baghdad where it was placed in operation at the Zawra Park Amusement Park.

I have two sources who maintain that the locomotive was repatriated to Kuwait after Desert Storm, two who maintain that the locomotive continued to operate in Iraq through the 1990's, and two who maintain that the locomotive was destroyed during the current festivities in Iraq.

If anyone has actual knowledge of this locomotive, I'd be greatly appreciative.
Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crown Metal Products 4-4-0
steaminfo wrote:
During the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, an operable 36" gauge Crown 4-4-0 was removed from a Kuwaiti amusement park and transported to Baghdad where it was placed in operation at the Zawra Park Amusement Park.

I have two sources who maintain that the locomotive was repatriated to Kuwait after Desert Storm, two who maintain that the locomotive continued to operate in Iraq through the 1990's, and two who maintain that the locomotive was destroyed during the current festivities in Iraq.

If anyone has actual knowledge of this locomotive, I'd be greatly appreciative.


Doug;

One newsbit that made shed some light into the current situation:

After Gulf War I, the firm of Severn Lamb in England was contracted to build a live steam replacement trainset for the Crown Metal Products trainset. The trainset built was based on Severn Lamb's standard "Lincoln" 2 foot gauge 4-4-0 offering; but regauged to 3 ft.

So, a 4-4-0 reported operational at Entertainment City amusement park, Kuwait may be the Severn Lamb replacement, and not the original Crown Metal Products locomotive.

The last location listed for the Crown Metal Product trainset was Zawra Park amusement park, Bagdad, Iraq. News on any of the five steam locomotives that once remained in Iraq would be welcomed; one of my "correspondants" did spend some time in Iraq a couple of years ago, but was unable to check on any of them.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project
Author:  Ed Kelley [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crown Metal Products 4-4-0
According to Severn-Lamb's construction record, a 3' diesel hydraulic (steam outline) 4-4-0 was delivered to Entertainment City, Kuwait, in 1995. The firm has only produced three 3' steamers thus far, two of the Guiberson-Harpur design (for Port Aventura park, Barcelona) and one for EuroDisney based on the original 5/8-scale Disneyland locomotives.
Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crown Metal Products 4-4-0
survivingworldsteam wrote:


News on any of the five steam locomotives that once remained in Iraq would be welcomed; one of my "correspondants" did spend some time in Iraq a couple of years ago, but was unable to check on any of them.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project


James - What would these five steam locomotives be? All "amusement park" engines like the Crown 4-4-0 mentioned, or actual engines from some Iraq rail line?

Les
Author:  steaminfo [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crown Metal Products 4-4-0
Quote:
James - What would these five steam locomotives be? All "amusement park" engines like the Crown 4-4-0 mentioned, or actual engines from some Iraq rail line?

Les


One of them is interesting: it's a Sentinel -- a 4-wheeled vertical boiler geared tank engine built in England in 1928. It is located outside the Iraq Railways main workshop in Baghdad, on a concrete pad with rails. Was reported still there in January 2007, by a railfan in the U.S. Army who has promised, but not delivered photos of same.

According to my railfan friend, the status of the Crown in Zawra Park is indeterminate. He has visited the park, the rails are there, but he could find no sign of the locomotive.

The derelict ex-Iraqi Railways 2-8-0 listed in Baghdad cannot be located. I spoke with an official in the Iraqi Transport Ministry during the first week in February (my phone bill is going to be horrendous) and he says that it was never officially disposed of, and is probably wheverer it was left, but he isn't aware of where it might be.

Same official says that the ex-Iraqi Petroleum 2-8-4T that we (James and I as well) list exists on a siding near Mosul, and that he thinks that there are actually two of them there.

The 0-6-0T-T located at the remains of the railway station in Baghdad is still there, according to Army railfan friend, but much the worse for wear.

Hope this helps
Author:  steaminfo [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crown Metal Products 4-4-0
There are photos of two of the locomotives on the internet. You can see the Sentinel at:

http://www.ajg41.plus.com/images/rail/iq-shalschialoco.jpg

And the British built 2-8-0 is at:

http://www.ajg41.plus.com/images/rail/iq-8f.jpg

Hope this helps.
Author:  steaminfo [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crown Metal Products 4-4-0
Ed Kelley wrote:
According to Severn-Lamb's construction record, a 3' diesel hydraulic (steam outline) 4-4-0 was delivered to Entertainment City, Kuwait, in 1995. The firm has only produced three 3' steamers thus far, two of the Guiberson-Harpur design (for Port Aventura park, Barcelona) and one for EuroDisney based on the original 5/8-scale Disneyland locomotives.


Okay...on that basis I'm going to kill our entry in Kuwait for the Severn Lamb locomotive as we don't list steam outlines (at least not intentionally anyway). Many thanks for the info, Ed.

Doug
Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crown Metal Products 4-4-0
The 2-8-0 is a former WD Stanier 8F locomotive. It was mentioned in Old Glory Magazine awhile back, and there is great interest in bringing it back to the UK. It was by the special Royal trainset build for Sadam and never used; and there is an aerial photograph of it on the web (not on Goggle Earth.)

One of my friends in the UK sent me the 2007 Edition of "Surviving Steam in the British Isles", published by the Locomotive Club of Great Britian. I looked for this locomotive in it, and did not find it; so it has not left the country. It may have been moved to a safer location.

BTW Doug, in reference to our conversation last night, this publication lists "over 1500" steam locomotives; including miniature railways and Ireland. I have 1608 listed for the UK; filtering out about a dozen or so homebuilt locomotives, locomotives with a gauge less than 15 inches, and 19 known/thought to have been scrapped; and added the 15 or so that are in Ireland but not in the UK (Northern Ireland); and I think my database and this book are pretty close. (That 1900 figure must be way off.) I have an older copy of it I need to send to you; one of these days, I will finish going through the new edition line by line and checking/updating my records.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project
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