Hi folks - looking for specifications, technical history of the 400 class 2-8-2's which ended up on the T&P. Looking at moving the 400 from its tin can enclosure in the city park in Marshall to a display site at the depot museum, trying to figure out a light weight for the engine less tender (and a whole lot of asbestos!) to give to the riggers.

BTW, a 1940's date is cast into both side of the cylinder saddle which leads me to believe there was some serious updating / rebuilding going on. Well, either that or one hellacious wreck. Anybody know?

I'm not a T&P / FW&D guru, would appreciate assistance.

dave

Dave -

I believe that T&P 2-8-2 #400 was originally Ft. Worth & Denver #410. The T&P purchased it after they were dieselized as "insurance" to get trains through a section of their railroad that was subject to minor flooding that would kill diesel traction motors. Not sure why the T&P renumbered the engine to 400. Also not sure if the T&P 2-8-2's were numbered in the 400's.

Les

When I worked for BN, we looked into the engine in Marshall because she was a Ft Worth & Denver engine, which T&P bought because there were none of their own left for use as park displays. While I can't answer your question directly, it seems to me that a folio drawing correct for "T&P 400" with weights and overall dimensions, was included in the out of print classic by Hol Wagner, The Colorado Road. This is the history of the C&S and FW&D railroads, and should be available used online (but not available cheap) if you don't have access to a copy. It also has details of how your 400 came to Marshall, as I recall.

Got this info from FW&D guru and rail historian, Steve Goen of Wichita Falls, Texas.

Skip Waters
Dallas, Texas
__________

The Marshal engine was originally FW&D 410, a E-4A1 class 2-8-2 "Mikado". It was built by Baldwin in June 1915. The loco was one of ten such engines purchased by the FW&D that year (401-410) which were the first steam locomotives ordered as oil burners on the line. The 410's original 1915 specs were as follows...

builder: Baldwin
drivers: 64"
engine weight: 272,200 lbs.
tractive effort: 52,300 lbs.
boiler pressure: 180 lbs.
cylinders: 27 x 30
Baldwin construction number: 42125
oil capacity: 3,050 gallons

Later modifications included:

1. original wooden cab was replaced by an all-steel cab sometime during the 1920's.

2. Tender oil capacity was increased from 3,050 gallons to 4,050 gallons in 1928.

3. Cab was moved back two feet in 1948.

4. By 1940 the engine weight was up to 274,000 (up from 272,200), the tractive effort was raised to 58,092 (up from 52,300) and the boiler pressure had been raised to 200 lbs. (up from 180).

For whatever reasons, the 410 operated with a tender from a scrapped F-3A 4-6-2 "Pacific" for a time during the 1950's. It would later get its own tender back.

FW&D 410 was used right up to the end of FW&D steam operations in the late 1950's and saw extensive use out of Wichita Falls on the Wichita Valley run to Stamford and Abilene. It also was used as a yard goat in Wichita Falls during this time as well. Other late day assignments on the FW&D during its final years of operation included use on the FW&DSP (Ft. Worth & Denver South Plains) between Childress, Estelline and Lubbock.

The 410 was officially sold to the T&P at 5:00 PM on January 29, 1958 for $9,500.00. The T&P had already retired all of its own steam locomotives by that date and had periodically leased a FW&D 2-8-2 whenever the Red River flooded out the line between Alexandria and Natchitoches (primarily just north of Boyce, Louisiana). The reason for this was that diesels have electric traction motors located low inside their trucks. High water causes these to short out or be ruined. This was not a problem with steam locomotives which could operate in high water as long as it did not reach up into the firebox (some five feet above the rails). So wherever annual floods began to shut down the line, the T&P would assign a leased FW&D steamer to pull T&P trains through the water along a five mile long stretch of mainline that existed near Boyce, Louisiana.

Since the T&P saw that their steam locomotive source (the FW&D) was preparing to phase out its own final steam operations in 1958-1959, the T&P decided to go ahead and buy a 2-8-2 from the FW&D before they were all gone. Several other FW&D 2-8-2's had been leased over the years during almost annual bouts of flooding on the Red River but the T&P decided on buying the 410 which was taken to the Marshall Shops where it was renumbered T&P 400.

The T&P chapter of the 400 was an extremely short one. The locomotive was only fired up a few times during flooding that occurred in May 1958 and was used to a less extent during subsequent years. By 1962 much of the flooding had been alleviated thanks to additional levies being built along this portion of the Red River. The 400 was officially retired by the T&P in 1963 and donated to the City of Marshall.

Steve Goen

Dave,

What is your email address? Steve Goen has a builder's diagram showing the original specs and weights for FW&D 410 (later T&P 400) that may help you.

Skip

Ask and you will recieve. Thanks, gents. All this will be of great help to the citizens of Marshall as they work out how to care for the poor old girl.

dave