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| Looking for a history of the rebuilding of Niles Canyon RR https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22686 |
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| Author: | Rob Gardner [ Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Looking for a history of the rebuilding of Niles Canyon RR |
Does anyone know if there is a good narrative history of the PLA's reconstruction of the line through Niles Canyon? I would be very interested in reading more about how they accomplished this reconstruction and what further trackage they hope to reconstruct. Are there any detailed maps out there showing what they've rebuilt and what sections may remain to be rebuilt? The PLA website doesn't get into that much detail. Thanks, Rob Gardner |
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| Author: | Ed Kelley [ Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a history of the rebuilding of Niles Canyon |
I reccomend getting a copy of Henry Luna's Images of Rail: Niles Canyon Railways from Arcadia Publishing. Henry is one of the PLA's founders, and the book provides a good history of both the SP and WP lines through the canyon as well as the organization itself. There was a great detailed map on our member's site (which I believe is also in Henry's book), but unfortunately it was hacked last month and is still offline. A short article I wrote on the PLA's history was also hacked along with it. |
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| Author: | wm303 [ Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a history of the rebuilding of Niles Canyon |
> Are there any detailed maps out there showing what they've rebuilt and > what sections may remain to be rebuilt? Find a Southern Pacific track chart or map. PLA rebuilt the railroad from the junction in Niles through Sunol to Hearst Siding, adjacent to I-695 between Sunol and Pleasanton, plus they expanded Brightside Yard. At one time there was discussion about extending the line to downtown Pleasanton. I do not know what became of that. |
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| Author: | Ray [ Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a history of the rebuilding of Niles Canyon |
I was just in Pleasanton last month, and I didn't realize how close were to Niles canyon.... While in downtown Pleasanton, we were eating at a Pizza place and I noticed that behind the parking lot seemed to be an old ROW....is that the same line? |
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| Author: | Alan D Siegwarth [ Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a history of the rebuilding of Niles Canyon |
The line through downtown Pleasanton is part of the same line we operate on - our organization has worked towards extending the line to Pleasanton for years - who knows what the future holds. To answer Rob's question, in addition to Henry Luna's book which is an excellent resource on the PLA and Niles Canyon in general I would recommend becoming a member. Our newsletter, The Club Car is running a series of articles on just this question - the rebuilding of the NCRy by the Pacific Locomotive Association. Membership is only $36/year and you will receive our newsletter that keeps you up date on the progress at the museum. See the attached link and click on the membership application form. http://www.ncry.org/aboutus.htm |
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| Author: | wm303 [ Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a history of the rebuilding of Niles Canyon |
Yes. UP uses the WP line through Pleasanton and over Altamont Pass. |
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| Author: | Ted Miles [ Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a history of the rebuilding of Niles Canyon |
folks, I have read the back issues of the Club Car and it does a good job of telling the story of the PLA and the Niles canyon Railway. The last time I was in the gift shop, I noted that they have a dvd or two that contain all the back issues of the newsletter. It is a good read! Ted Miles |
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| Author: | Rob Gardner [ Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a history of the rebuilding of Niles Canyon |
Ted and all, Any idea how I could get ahold of those back issues? I'm really impressed with how much PLA has accomplished plus I really get a kick out of learning organizations like this get so much track rebuilt. Also, can anyone definitively state if 2472 will run on the Niles Canyon RR? From what I can tell, they have a wye at the south/west end of the line but nothing at the Pleasanton end of the line to turn such an engine. I had read somewhere that part of the reason PLA allowed their own SP Pacific to go to Sacramento was that the line wasn't built quite to the standards necessary to support a large Pacific. Can anyone comment better on those points? Rob Gardner |
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| Author: | Randy Hees [ Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a history of the rebuilding of Niles Canyon |
The Niles Canyon Railroad was built as part of the original "Pacific Railroad" between 1862 and 1869. It was replaced as the primary route to San Francisco in the late 1870's but continued as a secondary mainline. It was extensively rebuilt between 1896 and 1912, including signals as part of the SP "Harriman" improvements, including the Dumbarton railroad bridge, and extension of the Centerville branch (originally a 3' gauge horse powered branch of the South Pacific Coast railroad) It continued as a portion of the Mainline of the Southern Pacific Railroad until the early 1980's When SP operated it regularly saw Pacific type locos, including at least one of the P-10's (same class as 2472 and 2479), along with mountains and cab forwards. The last use of the line was as a bypass during tunnel work on the parallel WP/UP, which included the use of UP 6900 series "Centennial" D-D locomotives. The curvature and such can handle anything short of a Big Boy. As noted there is a wye at the Niles end. There are no other turning facilities on the railroad. The PLA general plan originally called for a turntable at Pleasanton, but now it is not clear if the line will ever get to Pleasanton due to the CAVE (Citizens Against Virtually Everything) people. The P-10 Pacific’s are not real good in reverse (there is no steering in the trailing truck) In reality, as a tourist line, slow speeds are better. Then make the ride last longer. Trains rarely need more than a 100 ton loco. The Pacific’s, while they could run in the canyon are bigger than needed. Eric wrote an article for Trains several years ago on the 6 coupled loco as the perfect loco for tourist operations… While the pacifics are 6 coupled they are big, and just too much loco for the way the line is used today. I suspect you will see the 2472 completed and operated, but not often, and more often on the Caltrain line on the peninsula. |
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| Author: | Ken Middlebrook [ Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a history of the rebuilding of Niles Canyon |
Randy Hees wrote: When SP operated it regularly saw Pacific type locos, including at least one of the P-10's (same class as 2472 and 2479), along with mountains and cab forwards. The last use of the line was as a bypass during tunnel work on the parallel WP/UP, which included the use of UP 6900 series "Centennial" D-D locomotives. The P-10 Pacific’s are not real good in reverse (there is no steering in the trailing truck) Randy, I hate to be a rivet counter but... The 2467 and 2472 are P-8 classs SPacific's that share the same trailing truck arrangement which was not conduscive toward back up moves. The 2479 is a P-10 SPacific with a delta type trailing truck which was an improvement over the earlier P-8 models and, as a result, tracked better in reverse. Additionally, the frame of the P-10 class is about 12" longer than the P-8's to accomodate booster engines (the 2479 never received a booster) and to provide needed cab space for the engine crew. Ken |
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| Author: | Ted Miles [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a history of the rebuilding of Niles Canyon |
The Niles Canyon Railway has a nice book and gift shop in their station. Last time I visited they were selling the complete edition of the Club Car newsletter on a set of CD-Roms. you might contact them through their web site about purchase of the set. I don't know if the 2472 ever ran on that line; but the SP was a mighty large railroad and I think they had plunty of places other than that small branch line to run such a big locomotive. i know that class was used on cross country runs before moving to the SP commuter line to San Jose. Ted Miles |
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