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| Implications of Charlotte Trolley Situation? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22707 |
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| Author: | bobyar2001 [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Implications of Charlotte Trolley Situation? |
http://www.news14charlotte.com/content/ ... rID=136160 Is this something new? Could it affect historic trolley operations in San Francisco, San Jose or elsewhere? |
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| Author: | Randy Hees [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Implications of Charlotte Trolley Situation? |
Without further information, I suspect this is a bureaucratic regulatory question concerning safety standards such as floor height including anti climbers and other crash standards. preserved Antique cars would not be designed or certified (even if they met the standards) to meet such standards. San Jose encountered such an issue with their Milan Italy car. They installed a center sill to solve the issue in that case. In San Francisco the F and E line use only historic cars, and don't commonly interact with modern cars, so there is no issue. The San Pedro Trolley (Los Angeles area) had to both reinforce the frame of the replica cars to modern standards and have temporal seperation of modern rail and historic trolleys. Modern LRV cars are heavy, and would likely crush a historic car in the case of a collision. Government agencies can be overly cautious. |
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| Author: | wesp [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Implications of Charlotte Trolley Situation? |
I also recall that Market Street Railway was planning modifications to their Johnstown car in order to have it meet crash standards. Wesley |
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| Author: | scrmcurator [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Implications of Charlotte Trolley Situation? |
Personally, I think the streetcar folks in Charlotte should give up, bring their trolleys a few miles down I-77, and help us rebuild the western 6 miles of the R&R. A cross-platform transfer at Rion Quarry would be easy to set up. There's even room for parking out there if they want to be open when SCRM isn't. It'll never happen, though. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Implications of Charlotte Trolley Situation? |
Matt, if there were commuters needing rail service on the last 6 miles of the R&R, somebody would be providing it. Why would CATS even consider such an option? The more I learn about the light rail system as it is evolving in Charlotte, the more I am convinced the city itself is at the mercy of its own desire to have its reach exceed its grasp by hiring the most grandiose planners and cost overrun creating consultants which they then can't manage due to having no internal expertise. It is becoming a bit of an embarassment like the basketball stadium the citizens voted down, only to have the city council force it on us anyhow. Charlotte Trolley, the volunteer group, managed to successfully avoid living up to any of the commitments it made to the city as to having a certain number of cars available and running for a certain number of hours per day by specific deadlines. I completely understand CATS reluctance to have them take cars out on the commuter mainline. A city streetcar line is projected from the northside of downtown through town and out towards the east side. The neighborhoods it would run through were mostly historically streetcar suburbs. The best way to use historic cars would be on this street level line - if it actually ever gets built. Bear in mind that, about 18 years ago when I was first restoring car 85 from a chicken coop into an operating car, the city itself removed the existing tracks from beneath Central Avenue as part of a repaving project despite entreaties to just pave over them for future use. Charlotte can choose to just build tracks like we've done since 1888 using available funds, or hire consultants to tell them how to do so using Federal Transit funds, the red tape of which will cost the project as much in matching and regulatory add-ons as just building it originally would cost, but also taking many years longer. Guess which is more likely? At my age i can't afford to wait. I really wish I could say something more positive about light rail / trolleys my own city, but they aren't making it easy for me to come up with anything. dave |
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| Author: | scrmcurator [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Implications of Charlotte Trolley Situation? |
Dave wrote: Matt, if there were commuters needing rail service on the last 6 miles of the R&R, somebody would be providing it. Why would CATS even consider such an option?
I was talking about the 85, Fort Smith "Columbia" car, the Greek car, and the PST St. Louis "PCC." IIRC, CATS doesn't own any of them. In other words, the volunteer group should tell CATS to get stuffed, and set up a traditional "run through the woods" trolley museum on the western part of the R&R. I never meant to suggest a working commuter operation. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Implications of Charlotte Trolley Situation? |
Sorry, I thought it was an April Fool thing. Figured I'd help you play it out. I kind of think if you removed an already marginal museum from the nexus of a major urban center, where it actually exists in context, and receives a degree of subsidy, and set it up way out in the woods near pretty much nothing on its own, it probably doesn't stand much of a chance of prosperity or survival. This isn't a bad guys / good guys thing. There's adequate well intentioned miscalculation shared among all parties involved. How many of us working in the business would actually have allowed the idea of sharing technologically (and culturally) mututally exclusive operations like this on the same line at the same time to have been included from the beginning? dave |
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| Author: | scrmcurator [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Implications of Charlotte Trolley Situation? |
Dave wrote: Sorry, I thought it was an April Fool thing. Figured I'd help you play it out.
Oh, you mean like literally running the light rail line down the median of I-77? I've actually heard serious talk about extending the light rail to Rock Hill, with many, many expletives directed at Pineville for being an obstacle. Granted South Carolina is great at talking and not so great about following up with action -- the Fairwold Connector just north of Columbia is a case in point. North Carolina looks intelligent and progressive compared to SC! No, I'm serious about the trolley volunteers moving down here. If they could get those two carbodies from Charleston and the NOPS car from Spencer, they'd have a decent collection with the other two bodies they've got. And I know of other trolley museums that are out in the middle of nowhere -- Railways to Nowhere, I mean Yesterday, alongside East Broad Top springs to mind. I think SCRM is actually closer to civilization than the EBT. If only certain people in the organization could be convinced to go to weekly operations... BTW, where did all that other stuff that used to be at the Charlotte Trolley go? Last time I was at Atherton Mill, they only had the Fort Smith car and the 85 there, and I *think* the Greek car. The Philly car and the two truckless bodies were gone. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Implications of Charlotte Trolley Situation? |
Better to move it all to Charleston where something could actually take place in a location guaranteed to succeed. I don't know where everything has gone. I never stop in anymore - too frustrating. dave |
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| Author: | JimBoylan [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Implications of Charlotte Trolley Situation? |
Is this a product of the same state that got rid of the dome passenger car on its subsidized Amtrak train because it might be dangerous? |
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| Author: | Dave [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Implications of Charlotte Trolley Situation? |
In all fairness Jim, we did finally refuse to send Jesse to the senate. Little by little....... dave |
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