Some time ago, I believe it was discussed that the Ohio Railroad Museum was going to slim down its collection and part with some of its railroad collection. If my memory serves me as accurate, perhaps it included the Pullman Times Square, an Erie gas electric car, a steam locomotive etc etc.

My question is, did anything ever become of this ?? If so, where did the pieces of the collection go... If not, what is happening now ??

Thank you !


Dean Levin

I believe the Erie Gas Electric Car is still there, a group of interested parties in the east are trying to get enough money together to finance having it moved.

Amazing that in Ohio they seem to have great difficulty figuring out the local significance of this piece of equipment.

(hints: Alexander Winton, Winton Engine Company, Electro-Motive, Cleveland Ohio, etc. etc. etc.)

MX (Obviously Not My Real Name)

Your post on the Erie gas electric car made me remember that I did recall a group in NJ attempting to secure this car. In looking at the URHS web site, it says that the Erie Gas electric car is a project that is being supported by the "the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society, the Friends of the New Jersey Transportation Heritage Center and the URHS of NJ. The latter being the lead organization "...

I recall the desire for ORM to dispose of this equipment being at least a year ago if not longer. I also thought at one point the steam locomotive was going to go to the Ohio Central, but for unknown reasons it did not.. I never heard any takers of the Times Square or any other pieces of equipment.

I would be curious to know, how things are going with the attempt to save the Erie gas electric car, or if this effort fell by the wayside. Are fund raising efforts being done ? ... or is this a project that lost steam after the initial attraction. It is certainly a worthy project no matter where the car is, and no matter who owns it ! I have not seen recent pictures of the car, and wonder what its present condition is ? Anyone have an idea ?

Thanks

Dean Levin

I believe one North Shore car in only fair condition at best was sold to another museum. It has not been moved but the buying organization purchased and sent a tarp to provide some protection in the interim. The ex CTA 4000's are in very poor condition and some effort has been spent to salvage parts for other preserved like cars.

Bob Kutella

I was in Columbus about a year ago and stopped at the Museum on a weekday afternoon. It wasn't open, but I could see that the Erie car, Stillwell-style roof and all, didn't look too bad. No rustier than at any time in the last 25 years, at least from a distance.

What I'd like to know is how the Detroit Street Railways Peter Witt is faring in there. I couldn't see it from the parking lot.

Folks,

i read through their recent news letters on their web site and they have cleaned up their site, removed some PVC laden transformers and done a lot of track work.

But they have not put a newsletter up in over a year now. One would think that finding a new home for their Norfolk and Western steam locomotive would be a priority as the money would give them some operating funds to start getting back on their feet.

back in the 1960s this was one of the hottest traction museums in the country. But I believe that they have had problems with new neighbors who were not there years ago.

I guess if this is the worst case scenario, then the sale of a collection piece for operating expenses would be tolerable, but I would have to be on my last, last legs before pursuing such a strategy.

Actually, even in that case it would not be in accord with the American Association of Museums' Code of Ethics for Museums, which states:

"disposal of collections through sale, trade, or research activities is solely for the advancement of the museum's mission. Proceeds from the sale of nonliving collections are to be used consistent with the established standards of the museum's discipline, but in no event shall they be used for anything other than acquisition or direct care of collections."

TRANSLATION: proceeds from the sale of items deaccessioned from the collection should be used only to purchase new collections or directly to care for existing collections (eg, conservation, improved storage, improved shelving or housing, etc), not to pay the heat bill, rent, or director's salary.

I was blessed to be at ORM most weekends in the late 1960's as an 8-12 year-old and have many memories of the North Shore car, helping to cut brush along the ROW with the line car, the PCC, 703 and the likes. My childhood pet cat was a kitten of the resident carbarn mouser. Today I try to follow from afar. There was a Columbus Dispatch article about a year ago that highlighted members who were against the sale of the steamer and even threatened to chain themselves to it or the like.

It seemed like ORM was climbing out, but lost their primary source of revenue when OC changed their ways. When the sale of the equipment was announced, it was because the museum board decided to narrow focus, perhaps to Ohio related traction. The lack of any news or newsletters on their website is very depressing.

It is an interesting conversation when it comes to the disposal of an item at a railroad museum that makes this an interesting conversation. The code of ethics regarding museums is interesting reading, however what is unique ( in my opinion ) about a railroad museum, is that they are unlike a typical art museum or other types of museums where things are typically smaller in size and kept indoors. Speaking on behalf of what I have witnessed over the years, much of the equipment stored outdoors at a typical museum, either arrived in poor condition, or has been subject to years of weather exposure, placing the item, almost as more of an liability than it is a practical exhibit. Most museums, have their fair share un-restored equipment, that is being lost in each passing year do to neglect which is caused by either lack of concern, lack of money, or other projects that demand more attention.

As these objects take up considerable space, and in theory can be moved ( either by flat car, semi trailer, etc ), I would think at some point the debate will be, is it better to hold onto an item, giving it no shelter or protection and allowing the weather and outdoor elements to destroy it and conform to the standards of the museum code of ethics, or is it better to find practical homes for such items, while their is still a chance for the items survival ( while perhaps gaining a few needed dollars for the care of the other items in a collection )

I guess my point is, since a large percentage of the items at railroad museums are likely kept outdoors without protection, when is it time to say, "we will never get around nor have the funding to seeing that _____
get restored." and allow that item to go to perhaps a better home, bringing in needed cash for the balance of a collection.

Personally, I like the idea of seeing objects that have had little care, go elsewhere. Of for that matter, seeing objects that don't fit the mission statement go somewhere else where it is more suited. There are examples, such as the little joe and GG1 at the B&O Museum that left and went elsewhere, the recent equipment trades at Portola, a FGE reefer in Altoona,a C&O caboose on the west coast at PSRM, and even the tough decisions in New Jersey to slim down the large collection intended for the proposed museum. I am sure we can think of a hundred examples and I wonder if the equipment in study is better off at its new location. My inclination is more often yes than no.

A sample provided below for thought !

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?20060 ... N&BOOL=ANY


Dean A Levin

I doubt many here would balk at a museum culling its collection. I think the point is when do you cannibalize the collection for survival. It is also true that when OERM sold off 5 traction pieces in the last few years, it was determined that those making the purchases could in fact provide a good home with a chance of a sooner restoration. It does anyone little good to have a car stored outside in dry and temporate southern California shipped off to northern California, a much wetter climate just to again receive outside storage.

Thank you, Erik.



At the time the AAM wrote this statement there was quite a bit of discussion. I understand that a number of commentators within the museum world thought that any proceeds from the sale of collections should only go to purchasing new items and not for the care of existing collection. The view as expressed above won out.

A particular museum that because the "whipping boy" for selling collection for operating expense was the Mary Knoll (sp?) Museum in the northwest. It was selling off collection items to pay operating expense, including the director's salary.

Two points about the AAM Ethics Policy:

Dispositions such as OERM's sale of rollling stock are clearly in compliance with the enacted, watered-down policy statement since the money was used for the huge new barn which will get most of the remaining collection undercover ("improved storage")

AAM Policies apply at most only to AAM member museums. They have recently put a the list of member organizations on their web site and it looks to me that the only railroad museum to belong to AAM is the Minnesota Transportation Museum. Is that correct?

Finding a better home for a piece of the collection - either because it fits better or would be better cared for, should be of prime importance through out the railroad museum community.

Jim

I disagree with your statement.

The AAM statement on museum ethics should be considered "best practice" for museums -- no mater what they are museums of; or whether or not they are members of the AAM.

By the way, a quick look at the AAM membership list shows that it includes the following who have railway artifacts:
Illinois Railway Museum
Northwest Railway Museum
Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania
Reading Company Technical & Historical Society Inc
Baltimore Streetcar Museum
Chesapeake Beach Railway Museum
Boothbay Railway Village
Seashore Trolley Museum
Age of Steam Railroad Museum [Dallas]
Railroad & Heritage Museum [Temple, TX]
Historical Museum At Fort Missoula (accredited!)
Union Station Foundation [Ogden, Utah]
Trolley Museum of New York
US Army Transportation Museum