I am FINALLY going to live my dream of working for a railroad as a freight conductor (gotta start somewhere) on their extra board. I am well aware of the strenuous duties that will be asked of me; the hard training, the sleepless hours off, the back breaking work...etc etc etc. One question I would like to post before asking my superiors is, while I will work one shift, sleep for a bit and then go back and do it again, do railroads normally give you AT LEAST one 24 hr period off? They say that people can be on the extra board for as little as 6 months to an infinite amount of time before getting picked for locomotive engineer training, but they must understand that people have other responsibilities at home with their personal lives as well. I see no reason that one 24 hr period should be granted, don't you think?
My wife is quite concerned about this and now she has be concerned as well. We can handle the on call, off call thing, but we do need time as well to handle personal stuff at home. Do they do this?

You might want to go over to Railroad dot net and look at the forum titled "Employment" to get some idea about "time off", or lack thereof. It would appear that working for a Class One railroad is one of the quickest ways to be cured of enthusiasm for railroading, to judge from many of the comments there.

Bob Yarger hopefully will comment on the subject, too, and it seems that he has certainly NOT lost his interest in railroading, historic or otherwise!

Hey,

Per the standard UTU contract, you have 60 days of probational employment after you get marked up. (60 calendar days, not actual working days) Walk the chalk for 65 days (that way you are through the 60 days with NO question), and explain that to any engineer or other crewmember you are working with. There are shortcuts to take, others not to, but for two months, just suck it up.

After that, scratch when you need to, but not on the weekends except on rare occasions. Different RR's have different policies - 24hrs undisturbed on NS after 7 consecutive calendar day starts, CSX guys get one off day per week, determined by seniority bid. If you learn to play the board well enough, you can almost always be off when you need to, but again, don't start sharp shooting until after your 60 days. Also, if you are eligible for a yard extra board (some locations have combined boards, others are separate for road and yard), you don't have to answer your phone after 5 straight time starts. Also, after you qualify for vacation and personal days, you can use those to be off when you need to. One thing's for sure, though - if you aren't a good liar now, the class I's will turn you into one (cough, cough, mark me off, I'm sick). Don't let anyone know you like the stuff until later in the game - it will save you a lot of personal grief.

Although I LOVE railroading and especially steam engines, I HATE many aspects of NS. Work hard and dodge the obstacles to get a job, then have some idiot trainmaster hiding in the bushes trying to fire you (BTW, pay up your whammy insurance!). That all said, if you have a decent trainmaster and road foreman, it can be a lot of fun. Often I have gotten down watch 19 or 20 roll by and think about the R&R Magazine blurb about "railfanning is..." It is watching PV's come by on the rear of 19 or 20 and getting paid overtime to do it!

Then my TM got promoted and we got stuck with a complete MORON - ex-clerk with NO clue whatsoever. He doesn't even know the rules he's trying to cite you for breaking! Frustration will get your morale in a hurry. NS makes decent profits, but it would be scary at the amount of money we'd make if our management acutally knew what they were doing. I think we make money purely by accident (and sky high freight rates!)

All that said, would I trade my RR career and experience so far for anything else? Maybe, but it's been worth it so far. The people and stories can be worth the price of admission, so to speak. I once had a wise old man tell me if you'll answer the phone and show up, hold open your pockets and they'll fill 'em full. But the personal life will take a big hit. More than one RR widow out there, and more than one RR caused divorce.

Getting off my little soap box,
MAB
Locomotive Engineer
NS - the big donkey of transportation!

If you want to have a personal life and take care of stuff at home then you picked the wrong career path. Especailly if you are going to work for NS. Depending on type of service you are in your off time varies. With NS while working on the road for the 1st district of CNOTP it worked like this:
At my home termnial I had 10 hours off. At the away termnial I was off for 8 hours. Right now the FRA only requires companies to give crew members 8 hours off. There are some changes in the works with the goverment involving this. However at my home termnial I had a 2 hour call window. Thus I would be called in my 8th hour to be ready to report to duty at the end of my 10 hours rest. The same for the away termnial, but is was a 90 minute call window. Thus I would be called at 6 1/2 hours into my rest, to be ready to report for work at the end of the 8 hours.

Some one should of explained the hours of service to you before taking the job. Especailly since most companies want your full attention to the job and the company. In the eyes of some management now, there is no reason to be marked off for anything. Wether it is a family emergency, or your car is broke down. Working on the railroad is not a dream job. It is a nightmare. I was harrassed by a crew caller and a trainmaster when I was marked off for my grandfather's funeral 2 years ago, because the extra board was short handed. When I was first marked up on NS I worked 60 sum days straight before I had my first off day while working on the extra board.

I am a 4th generation railroader, and had worked on locomotives and shortlines before going to work at NS. I knew what the life style is and what it is like. Don't go into this job with a railfan attitude, that this is cool, or wow I have always wanted to do this. That goes out the window the first time you have to walk 12,000 foot intermodal train to replace a knuckle in a thunderstorm. Trust me after a few weeks you are going to despise seeing a train, locomotive, or anything to do with the railroad when you have some time off.

All I can say is beware what you wish for...........

This coming from a former NS employee who has been fired twice. Once for for going to the hospital due to smoke inhalation from a nearby industrial fire; and the second time for a supposed missed call that I never got.

Class 1 railroading and a personal life do not go hand in hand. Your best bet if you want both, is to find a good short line or go to commuter service. FYI, Hours of service as of now, up to 11 hours and 59 minutes of work, you can be called back in 8 hours. Chances are, they will encourage that of you to get more "productivity" out of you. If you work 12 or more, then it is 10 hours off. That is the law. You could be a train dispatcher as they are required 15 hours off before returning to duty. More than likely, on the extra board, you will have one day off assigned to you. If you are lucky, you might get 24 hours out of it. Find an "old head" that can teach you how to sharp shoot the board and how it turns. Then, start making life's plans...

Since I post under my name. Coming up on 8 years on one of the majors, I can tell you that you can maybe keep one club, or hobby in your life, if you're single or have a very understanding spouse. I usually manage to make my home NRHS chapter meeting most months, that's just about all I plan on doing most months.

If you can claim undisturbed rest on your railroad at home (after your probation), DO IT. The greedy old-heads who run the union locals gripe about newbe railfan railroaders who won't "protect the work", because they care about things like being awake at work, or having some semblance of a life.

What's been said about lying about being sick to be off is totally true. Most railroads do have a "personal business" markoff catagory, but unless the board is full and moving slowly, they'll deny you that mark-off catagory, and then you can't mark off sick, so everybody just marks off sick to start with, which they can't deny you. The trick is not developing a "pattern" of mark-offs, like an every other weekend sort of thing.

The biggest problem with those working in the industry is that they are making the same money they made 25 years ago, but working more overtime to do it. So, they just stay marked up constantly, and keep the pool turns understaffed so they can just keep getting out every 10-12 hours.

I think the best advice in this thread is to find a good shortline. Most work daylight M-F. They don't pay as much, but you'll have a life, and believe me that means more in the long-run than crewing any "hot" mainline train. This from someone who just got done engineering a UPS train all night. Oops, got to get to sleep. The board is empty for payday weekend!

CP Rail (former D&H), at Saratoga anyway, was a great place to work until about six months ago, when we lost two excellent Canadian supervisors due to job cuts. Since then, it has become a drag, like those described above. We're allowed to miss only six days per year, for any reason, then you get a hearing and possible discipline. This policy was always on paper, but never inforced before, now it is. When you consider that the average person gets 104 days off per year just from weekends, this is obviously not good. There is definitely no time for volunteer activities.

Our crew dispatching is totally out of control also, as the callers in Montreal are losing their jobs soon, with the veterans scrambling to other clerks positions and unqualified new people filling their slots. So bad, we have no idea when to sleep or eat or when our next train will be leaving.

And as stated above, management's stupidity pours money into your pockets, but over the long term it takes its toll on your body and life. Having worked in the mechanical department 21 years before becoming a conductor, I was used to regular days off and found the extra board pretty tough. Fortunately, I got here at the right time and was able to own a job right away, but someone hiring on now will be on the extra board for many, many years. In the St Luc pool presently, we are lucky to get one whole day off per month.

Sadly, there are still many in management who still see the industry as a dying entity and cutting expenses is all they know how to do, despite there being potential business right under their noses. Those who try to make a difference usually get squashed pretty quickly, as it makes their superiors look bad.

Shortline work may suit some, but having had to work for two of them briefly, I would never consider it unless there were a union contract present, which there is on about 65 percent of them.

I only have 14 months until retirement, so I can wait it out, but if I had longer to go, I'd be very depressed. I still like the railroad, but can't wait to stop...

there isn't much I can add to these other postings, except to say that there's nothing like actually working for a real railroad to teach you that it isn't very much like museum, tourist, or hobby shop railroading. As a matter of fact, "normal people" frequently make much better railroaders than railfans do....

In 13 years on the BN, the worst time was when I worked either every other eight hour shift or every other 12 hours for EIGHT MONTHS WITH NO DAYS OFF. I finally left because I figured out that I would never get a decent night's sleep until I did, that was 15 years ago, and I still have trouble sleeping normally. The short line idea may be a good option, but heed the advice about working for a line with a union contract, or you'll most likely find out why those who came before us worked so hard for the representation that we now have.

In places like Mexico or Guatemala, hours of service can be 16 or 18 hours per shift, and crews may have as many as 6 or 8 men --- this allows guys to switch off working and resting as needed. When working as a steam fireman for Ferrovias Guatemala, the longest I was on duty continuously was OVER FORTY HOURS. It was dangerous, and we made sure it never happened again, but there was no tying down our train after 12 hours, and waiting for a relief crew to show up.

Interestingly enough, the China Rail passenger crews I talked to indicated that they get several days off AT HOME per week. Whether or not freight and yard crews, or members of non-operating crafts enjoy that also, I can't say.

On a good day, railroading is a great job. Hopefully you will have good days from time to time. The world over, railroading is a special brotherhood, and many employees consider it to be way more than just a job. Most railroaders wouldn't do anything else. On the other hand, rail workers everywhere in the world have the same problems of staying alive, getting enough rest, and trying to have some kind of home life....

Best of luck to you, WORK SAFE, and miss a call for me !!!!

I hired out on CSX in 2000 as a conductor. I left CSX in 2004 one week after I was marked up as an engineer. At one time I was very BIG in railroading, volunteered for two railroad preservation groups, member of the local model railroad club, owned a wrecking derrick or two, locomotives, cabooses, motor car and drove a hi-rail truck! That was in 2000. By 2004 I had NO interest in railroading, sold off all the equipment I owned, and am now deeply immersed in working with preservation of steel industry equipment.

CSX successfully wiped out 99% of my railroading interest to the point where I don't even bother to notice locomotives on passing trains, save for seeing if the unit numbers match engines that I remember operating. The lack of time off when I needed it, repetitive nature of the job, same track, same damn widebodies, same trailer trains, and worst of all having to work with die hard unionists were big downsides of the job.

My advice, stay until the novelty wears off, then GET OUT!!! Go find another job before you lose your interest in railroads. Trust me on this one.

With all due respect to Bob, as a career shortline railroader nearing the 25 year mark I think I could not have survived on a class 1 railroad. Being locked into one job and doing that same job day after day with no hope of getting to do something in a different craft occasionally would drive me crazy. As a shortline railroader I have done a little of just about every job on the railroad including general manager and president. For me every job I have ever had the title meant the same thing. I did everything nobody else wanted to. That is truely one of the few things that make it possible for me to put my boots on in the morning and grind out another day toward retirement. I like not knowing exactly what job I may end up doing before the day is over.

As for having a union contract I think that depends on the management of the railroad you are working for. At the A&R I make perhaps 60 percent of what a roadmaster would on CSX. Like my CSX counterpart I am always on call, even when I am on vaction. In addition I am on call for the mechanical department and signal department or anybody else who may not be avalilable. I am on call as I type this message. Unlike my counterpart we only have one train running today and by evening it will be in the barn. I do not have to worry about around the clock operation or 40 trains a day even though we do usually run 365 days per year.

While I may not make as much money as a CSX roadmaster it is not all about money. Our benefits include 100% paid medical insurance, 401K, profit sharing which is deposited directly by the company into the 401K account, vacation, and sick days. In addition we get a very generous Christmas bonus which is also loosely based on company profits. We seldom work nights. Only trian crews regularly work weekends and that is one per month unless they want more and work for somebody who wants off.

Life on a shortline is a lot of hard work and like the class 1 will teach you not to like the railroad much. At this point about the only things railroad I care for are steam locomotives and the bussiness of running a railroad. I nearly get ill thinking I have at least ten years to go to retirement. Considering the way the government and lawyers keep introducing more and more often useless and counterproductive rules and regulations into the workplace things will certainly only get worse. This is even more true on the class 1 railroads where management seems to thrive on regulating workers to a stop and then firing them for stopping. I would not last long in that environment and do not want to try.

To be honest I think much of what has been said in this thread including my comments are true in nearly every profession these days. Thinking about it I am not sure I know anybody who really likes their job regardless of what the job may be. I do not know what the answer is but I know it is not any fun to go to work these days. Personally I do not think that was always the case, at least not for such a large percentage of the population but that is only this mans opinion.

John Bohon

Having railroaded for eleven years... I try to concentrate more on the things I have rather than the things I don't have. It keeps things in a bit better perspective. Money is not the end all. When I come home after a looooong day and the kids yell "Daddy!" and tackle me at the door, it just doesn't seem to matter that I had a rough day at work. My daytime job affords me the knowledge to do just one of the things that I enjoy while not at work.

I think there are two kinds of shortlines. There are the homespun Beebe/Clegg type that have been around a long time, and the much newer conglomerates, created via the 10901 exclusion during the Reagan Administration. The former may or may not be ok to work for, if you can survive on their wages. The latter border on evil in my mind, using $900 an hour lawyer teams to keep unions out and workers pitted against each other, so as to better control them. The 3 1/2 years I spent working for one of these was the worst time of my life. Unions may not be very strong anymore, but a union contract is a legally enforcable document, unlike false promises in an employee handbook, which aren't. Union workers have seniority that prevents the boss's nephew, brownnosers and backstabbers from taking their jobs and putting them in a worse one. And union workers make the same pay for doing the same job, without subjective changes in rate, depending on one's popularity with management.

Here on the D&H we had it very good until recently, with a family shortline atmosphere and wages better than the national contract. Part of that was from being owned by a Canadian railway. They have much better contracts up there and have generally treated their workers quite well, though that has changed on both CP and CN since acquiring American CEOs.