A few months ago I started a thread regarding synthetic materials in car rebuilds. It was titled One Word, Plastics. I can't for some reason access that old thread. In it Lynn Moedinger gave the name of a product that Strasburg uses. Can anyone acess this and give me the name? Thanks.

Linn said "Kleer":

http://www.kleerlumber.com/content/about/index.jsp

I have gotten some samples and pricing on what appears to be a similar product, Versatex:

http://www.versatex.com/

What application do you have in mind?

The last reply to "One word-Plastics" was on January 23rd. Probably a dozen or so pages back.

Later!
Mr. Ed

Thanks for the info. I've done a little looking into PVC extrusions, my supplier carries Perma-Trim and can order KOMA, all of these with Kleer and Versatek seem like about the same product. They seem like just the thing for an exterior application on a wooden coach when weather resistance is paramount.
However, the product literature and the dealer both warn against painting a dark color in areas exposed to strong sun. Apparently vigorous expansion/contraction is the issue.
Can Linn (sorry to have misspelled your name before) or someone else who has used these products for a season or two let us know how they stand up to changes in temperature.

Dave,

It took a while to get back to this.

If I recall, Linn said that they were trying the Kleer product to replace the MDF board they had been using for clerestory end panels, etc. I believe he said they were looking at the tongue and groove profiles for car siding, but hadn’t tried it yet. I think at this stage of the game, if you want to try these products for coach exteriors, you are, to paraphrase Gene Roddenberry’s intro to Star Trek, “going where no man has gone before.”

I wish I could share some direct experience with these products, but I don’t have any either. However, disappointment at seeing numerous cabooses “restored” with home center 1X8 Ponderosa Pine “car siding” and freight cars that have sprouted sheet metal roofs in an attempt to stave off the ravages of the elements have led to an interest in whether these modern plastic and composite materials could offer a solution for long life repairs to equipment that must stay outside. I’m happy to relay what my research has unearthed so far.

You lumped Kleer, Versatex, KOMA and Perma-trim into one category of equivalent materials, and they may well be for their intended purpose. However, there are differences, and we should explore if one material may be better suited to our specific application than the others. I found web sites for three of the product lines; none for Perma-Trim. KOMA does not appear to make any T&G material that could be used for siding. Kleer makes a soffit material that looks kind of like car siding, but has a strange half-lap edge joint. Only Versatex makes a T&G soffit material that looks like traditional car siding.

Early in the last century the ARA standardized millwork sections to be used as car sheathing; two different sections, one with a 3 ¼” face, and one with a 5 ¼” face divided by a central V groove. Both sections were 13/16” thick, and had edge bevels 3/16” wide and 1/8” deep, with the matching center groove in the wider stock being 3/8” wide and 1/8” deep. The Versatex soffit sections have 3 5/16” and 5 5/16” faces, with edge bevels on the back side that match the prototype dimensions. Unfortunately, the wider profile lacks the center groove, and both are only ½” thick, so are not direct replacements for original car siding on a board by board basis. The finished effect, however, will look exactly like ARA car siding, if a central groove can be routed into the wider profile.

Linn mentioned that Kleer shows voids on cut edges. Versatex goes into some detail about their “free foam” technology and the consistently small cell structure it creates. Having some samples of the soffit material in hand, I have to say that the cut ends show no cells larger than the pores one finds in end grain pine, and keep in mind these are closed cells, so don’t create moisture paths into the interior. I suspect an average coat of paint applied with a brush will adequately hide these cells in any grooves routed into the face of the siding.

While we are talking grooves, It occurs to me that the ½” thickness could be an advantage when replicating the thinner (often 9/16”) siding used on many passenger cars. Routing a central groove in the 3 5/16” material would yield apparent 1 5/8” boards.

You mention a warning against using dark colors. I first ran into this thermal expansion issue with a wood composite material called Tendura Plank composite porch flooring. The material is a wood/plastic composite extruded into a T&G flooring profile, and the brochure warns against possible buckling in applications exposed to direct sun light. The Tendura web site, however, has an update with a solution; they have changed the profile to have a thin ridge on the tip of the tongue that automatically spaces each joint open a couple of thousandths. This thin rib then crushes to provide clearance before the deck can buckle. We should explore what this means in our application.

The Versatex FAQ claims that an 18’ length of Versatex will expand 3/16” from thermal expansion. This probably rules out the use of this material on letterboards, with their long unbroken length. Trex wood/plastic composite might be a better choice here. Yes, it will expand as much, or try to, but its greater density will allow the fasteners to restrain it without pulling into the surface. Versatex has the density of White Pine, and I’m sure it can rather easily pull over nail or screw heads.

In addition, the final paragraphs in this technical specification sheet may be of interest:

http://versatex.com/pdf/102306Revisions/TechNo4.pdf

When considering the car siding application, keep in mind there are many potential expansion joints. That 18’ covered with 5 5/16” wide boards will have 40 joints, each which only has to move less than .005” to compensate for that thermal expansion. With the 3 5/16” face material, there will be 65 joints, each which has to move only .003”. I suspect the material will naturally not lay up perfectly tight, and even if it does, the small contact area on the edges of the boards, only 1/8” after subtracting the front and back bevels and T&G joint, will easily crush enough to accommodate the thermal expansion.

Speaking of the back of the boards, the double bead profile that Versatex considers the front of the board and is the back in our application will do an excellent job of allowing the wooden car structure to both weep moisture and “breathe”.

So, what about cost? My local distributor, Edward Hines Lumber Co., quoted me $1.40 per running foot on the 3 5/16” profile, and $2.12 / ft. on the wider material, both available only in 18' lengths. This works out to $5.07 and $4.79 per square foot respectively. Yes, it’s about 3X the cost of home center pine “car siding”, but it should last well in excess of 3X as long, and look more authentic as well.

I see Versatex has several distributors in New Hampshire. I think you should take a serious look at this material. If you choose to go this route, please report back on your experiences.

Disclaimer: I have no financial interest in Tendura, Trex, or Versatex. I am simply trying to match the best product with the needs of the railway preservation community.

Thanks for the complete review. I will start small and work from there. I'll let you know what happens. David