I read with great interest the recent thread on starting a national railway preservation database, encompassing at minimum preserved rolling stock. I'd like to take a slightly different perspective on the discussion; although it may seem obvious to those of us within the industry, the reasons why such a database is needed (and should thus be funded by a grant....) may not be as obvious to others outside the field. There are a lot of common elements here with efforts within the Maritime Preservation field to catalog surviving historic ships and shipwrecks, and ditto with Aviation Preservation. Here are some thoughts on why such a database would be helpful to Railway Preservation as a whole.

Again, I realize this may seem obvious to many, but I think it could be a useful exercise. This list contains a few elements picked out of the previous thread, but perhaps you can add something more? These are not necessarily in any order.

What benefits to railway preservation will the national database of preserved rolling stock (or insert other expanded definition here) bring?

1) Help promote national awareness of the Railway Preservation movement (and by extension improve prospects for funding of projects).
2) Help in achieving a better perspective on our own industry by gaining an understanding of what is over and under represented nationally.
3) Facilitate exchange of information by identifying where the equipment is and how to get in touch with the organization that has it.
4) Serve as a resource for organizations restoring equipment by:
A) assisting with restoration research- that missing part could be intact on a similar car/locomotive preserved by someone else.
B) assisting staff in making restoration decisions based on good information on other surviving examples
5) Help organizations obtain funding, by assisting with grant writing.

Additional thoughts/comments?

Finally, a site worth exploring is the NPS Maritime Heritage Program, particularly the "Historic Ships to Visit" section.

The site is at: http://www.cr.nps.gov/maritime/nmi.html


Railway Preservation Resources
jsmatlak@earthlink.net

You make a good point about the maritime theme. Another good source for worldwide ship preservation is The International Register of Historic Ships by Norman Brouwer 3rd edition. It is a book not on the web, perhaps in a future edition.

Another item is just how useful for museum trading such a site would be. There are many museums that want and need to re-shuffle their collections. This kind of information sure would help! TM

ted_miles@NPS.gov

Way to go, John! Your ideas about a National Railway Database are right on the mark all the way. If the "field" is serious about making this a reality, then let's all work together to make this happen. If the rest of the world is to take railway preservation seriously, we need to take our own efforts seriously. Thanks, John, for putting into words what has needed to be said for a very long time.

K.R. Bell
RR Museum of PA

> You make a good point about the maritime
> theme. Another good source for worldwide
> ship preservation is The International
> Register of Historic Ships by Norman Brouwer
> 3rd edition. It is a book not on the web,
> perhaps in a future edition.

> Another item is just how useful for museum
> trading such a site would be. There are many
> museums that want and need to re-shuffle
> their collections. This kind of information
> sure would help! TM

I think the concept has great value, both for fans and museums which are looking for trades or research opportunities, but also because of the image of preservation professionalism which it projects.

The biggest problem will be defining what information is needed about each piece to define it for the data base, without trying to capture the history of each rivet.

I would suggest that ARM might be the best organization to carry this forwardÂ… We do have a Western Regional Meeting due this spring. Maybe this could be the subject of a round table.

Randy Hees
Society for the Preservation of Carter Railroad Resources

> Way to go, John! Your ideas about a National
> Railway Database are right on the mark all
> the way. If the "field" is serious
> about making this a reality, then let's all
> work together to make this happen. If the
> rest of the world is to take railway
> preservation seriously, we need to take our
> own efforts seriously. Thanks, John, for
> putting into words what has needed to be
> said for a very long time.

> K.R. Bell
> RR Museum of PA


http://spcrr.org
hees@ix.netcom.com

It was what I thought all along as well; having the ability to add your own pictures to the database as well (using the Windows clipboard) makes "Surviving World Steam Locomotives" even more useful both as a research tool and to document our existing resources. (My personal copy has photographs of over 2,000 locomotives that I have collected to date.

There are large numbers of American/Canadian built locomotives overseas, and by making the scope worldwide, museums can also look overseas to see if the locomotive they need to complete their collection may exist overseas. While most of the overseas locomotives are "war babies", not all of them are.

One last shameless plug: I just finished revamping my website, and lowered the price to $32.95.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> I think the concept has great value, both
> for fans and museums which are looking for
> trades or research opportunities, but also
> because of the image of preservation
> professionalism which it projects.

> The biggest problem will be defining what
> information is needed about each piece to
> define it for the data base, without trying
> to capture the history of each rivet.

> I would suggest that ARM might be the best
> organization to carry this forwardÂ… We do
> have a Western Regional Meeting due this
> spring. Maybe this could be the subject of a
> round table.

> Randy Hees
> Society for the Preservation of Carter
> Railroad Resources


Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

> It was what I thought all along as well;
> having the ability to add your own pictures
> to the database as well (using the Windows
> clipboard) makes "Surviving World Steam
> Locomotives" even more useful both as a
> research tool and to document our existing
> resources. (My personal copy has photographs
> of over 2,000 locomotives that I have
> collected to date.

A case could also be made for extending the database to operating equipment...perhaps establishing a list of equipment that can be used by excursion operators and tourist railroads.
> There are large numbers of American/Canadian
> built locomotives overseas, and by making
> the scope worldwide, museums can also look
> overseas to see if the locomotive they need
> to complete their collection may exist
> overseas. While most of the overseas
> locomotives are "war babies", not
> all of them are.

> One last shameless plug: I just finished
> revamping my website, and lowered the price
> to $32.95.

> -James Hefner
> Hebrews 10:20a


kbcotton@flash.net

As a long-time private passenger car owner, former Director of AAPRCO, former Publisher of Private Varnish Magazine, and member of the RPCA, I have found that many car owners, including me, regard such lists as invitations to thieves. Most car owners of any experience have suffered breakins, as I have, and theft of irreplaceable parts (the lamps from my car's observation room, for instance). There are additional privacy concerns which should be obvious. No proposer of such a database has ever thought these considerations through... it's not a new idea. The prices on e-Bay these days make theft of railroad artifacts more profitable than ever.

Luxury Travel
seibold@trainride.com

Fred,

Actually, this has long been a concern. It has been a major concern in the steam vehicle/traction engine community; not so much because of theft by criminals, but because of the exporting of vehicles from countries other than the UK and USA by private collectors.

Nearly all of the lists I recieved have minimum information on the whereabouts of engines owned by private owners. Two lists (one of portable engines in Finland, another for all of Australia) gave no information at all on location; the latter was also no longer updated after engines continued to be exported from Australia.

I don't do background checks on my customers per say, but I do keep a database of who they are and the address I mailed the software to. I think any project like this would not be sold in a mass outlet such as a bookstore; but one-on-one to individuals and groups.

Furthermore, I continue to respect owner's property rights by only providing exact information (i.e. a street address) if they desire, or have already made it available via the Internet. In one case, where I recieved pictures of engines stored on private property, I not only do not provide an exact address, but also mentioned in the notes that they are not accessible to the public.

Vandalism is and will continue to be a problem. But I think most this activity occurs at the local level; even at the prices they could get on e-bay, I cannot imagine someone traveling the country at their time and expense hoping to grab something from a car/machine mentioned on a list.

Finally, the other side of the coin is discovery of lost treasures, and here is where I think the benefits outweigh the danger. I believe a "T" boiler Shay abandoned for years in the deep south surfaced because of my research, and the pictures I recieved of three derelect ploughing engines in Mali, Africa caused quite a stir amoung several contacts before the CD was released today.

> As a long-time private passenger car owner,
> former Director of AAPRCO, former Publisher
> of Private Varnish Magazine, and member of
> the RPCA, I have found that many car owners,
> including me, regard such lists as
> invitations to thieves. Most car owners of
> any experience have suffered breakins, as I
> have, and theft of irreplaceable parts (the
> lamps from my car's observation room, for
> instance). There are additional privacy
> concerns which should be obvious. No
> proposer of such a database has ever thought
> these considerations through... it's not a
> new idea. The prices on e-Bay these days
> make theft of railroad artifacts more
> profitable than ever.


Surviving World Steam Vehicles
james1@pernet.net