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| Historic Fabric https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2338 |
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| Author: | M Austin [ Tue Dec 04, 2001 11:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Historic Fabric |
If a restorationologist is ethically required to repair a boiler with rivets, even though said rivets are covered by jacket and lagging... is not lagging said boiler with asbestos also essential to maintaining the "Historic Fabric" of the artifact? Purely hypothetical question, of course.... |
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| Author: | David Wilkins [ Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Historic Fabric |
I think there are certain limitations to how far one could go to preserve the "historic fabric" of an artifact. I mean, yes the boilers were riveted, but even during the steam era, there were welded repairs, and even welded boilers (C&O 2789). Furthermore, you do have an issue with safety. After all, one does not use lead paint, ride on the footboards, or use push poles, even though they are considered part of the historic fabric of the operation of said artifact. In the end a balance must be achieved. If restoration to operation would destroy a large amount of the artifact's historical significance, then don't. Some things are best preserved by static display, while others are best preserved by restoration and operation. In the end, if any changes are made, good documentation is key so that future generations know what is original, and what is not. wilkidm@wku.edu |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Dec 05, 2001 9:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Historic Fabric |
> If a restorationologist is ethically > required to repair a boiler with rivets, > even though said rivets are covered by > jacket and lagging... > is not lagging said boiler with asbestos > also essential to maintaining the > "Historic Fabric" of the artifact? > Purely hypothetical question, of course.... And if a crown sheet drops in the forest and nobody is there to hear it fall, did it make any noise and was it from Rhode Island? Maybe we should start a steam pilosophy list. Dave irondave@bellsouth.net |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Dec 05, 2001 9:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Historic Fabric |
> If a restorationologist is ethically > required to repair a boiler with rivets, > even though said rivets are covered by > jacket and lagging... > is not lagging said boiler with asbestos > also essential to maintaining the > "Historic Fabric" of the artifact? > Purely hypothetical question, of course.... And if a crown sheet drops in the forest and nobody is there to hear it fall, did it make any noise and was it from Rhode Island? Maybe we should start a steam philosophy list. Dave irondave@bellsouth.net |
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| Author: | Paul D. [ Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Historic Fabric |
> Maybe we should start a steam pilosophy > list. Wow Dave. that is a deep thought. As far as the philosophy goes we already spend time sitting around drinking coffee and other tasty beverages. All we have to do is change the subject right? Paul pfdx@aol.com |
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| Author: | Jim Lundquist [ Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Historic Fabric |
do they drop the bomb everyday in Japan as part of the museum there? Come on! JimLundquist55@yahoo.com |
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| Author: | Angie Morefield [ Wed Dec 05, 2001 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Historic Fabric |
Dave, I propose we start a new board and entitle it "Zen And The Art Of Locomotive Maintenance". -Angie Ladypardus@cs.com |
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| Author: | T.J. Gaffney [ Wed Dec 05, 2001 4:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Historic Fabric |
Angie- Personally, I think we should have a separate yet just as important board "Zen and the Art of Wood Car Restoration." TJ > Dave, > I propose we start a new board and entitle > it "Zen And The Art Of Locomotive > Maintenance". > -Angie Port Huron Museum peremarquette@hotmail.com |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Dec 05, 2001 5:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | seriously folks |
There's the stuff we save and the stuff we use. A minimalistic approach is not restoration but conservation which entails simply stabilizing the artifact whether it be a piece of paper or a locomotive and protecting it to slow down deterioration to the maximum extent possible. Restoration approaches vary for practical, ethical or legal reasons. Legally, we don't use asbestos anymore in the USA since it is carcenogenic here. It isn't carcenogenic in Canada so maybe they still use it? Don't know....but they also still have good lead paint I think. Anything we run will get used up in service and given fiscal, ethical, legislative and practical realities we had better make friends with compromise or risk insanity. Dave irondave@bellsouth.net |
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| Author: | HRMO'Biph [ Wed Dec 05, 2001 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Historic Fabric |
Would that be from a certain "mountain" in Rhode Island?" (Heh, heh) As regards vitamin A. Most of those who have been adversely affected, upon further investigation, are those folks who worked in asbestos manufacturing for 50 years, smoked two packs of Camel shorts since the Coolidge administration, and, suddenly, in their 70's, started suffering from respitory illnesses. Much hubbub about nothing, which is typical of our Federal Regulators. lorija799@aol.com |
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| Author: | Dick Ikenberry [ Thu Dec 06, 2001 10:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Historic Fabric |
> Dave, > I propose we start a new board and entitle > it "Zen And The Art Of Locomotive > Maintenance". > -Angie To keep the historical flavor to it, how about "Zen and Now"??? Dick |
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| Author: | T.J. Gaffney [ Thu Dec 06, 2001 11:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: seriously folks |
Dave has a real point here. I keep thinking about the last topic which came up at the closing dinner of ARM/ TRAIN about what tourist railroads can learn from museums and visa-versa. As the director of the R.R. M. of PA put it, "I don't have to be a railfan to be the director of a railroad museum." Like it or not, those in the museum field have different priorities, and god bless them for doing so. I'll give you a real example; we at the Port Huron Museum really struggled with what to do for our baggage/ combine car display. After trying to purchase the Henry Ford recreation combine of 1929(which was vailable for "loan" from a gentleman in Utah for as much as we have spent restoring out current car) we tracked down a former GTW combine in Akron, thanks in large part to the quick-thinking of the guys at CVSR. The car's condition, was, well, BAD. It had suffered greatly over the years, and had about an 8" sag on one side and a 1 foot sag on the other. Her insides were gutted, as she had been used as a hobby shop in Akron. As we would later find out, much of her wood-bracing on the sides was shot. The guys at CVSR pretty much told us that if we didn't grab her in a timely fashion, she would to be TORCHED. We did not want (and could not justify) a full restoration of the car. Instead, we did a replication; we were happily surpised to find her roof's structural members were in great shape: the floor was really bad, as was at least 1/3 to 1/2 the crossbrasing on the sides. We made the gut decision to save as much of the original fabric as we could, and splice in new wood with the original. As this is an outdoor car, we then went with a seamless-rubberized roofing material, and sheathed the exterior walls before replacing them with as close to the original tongue-and-groove as possible. Since exactly four of the original sash windows were available by the time we acquired the car, we replicated their look as best we could with solid windows with mullions. We completely restored the clerestory section, and from two existing pieces of the etched glass that were left, recreated the roughly 40+ clerestory windows with a more modern glass, with a vinyl-like material that matches the design of the original etched glass exactly. The interior will be broken into three sections; 1.) a recreation of the cars original 8-seat smoking section 2.) a gift shop area in the center 3.) a recreation of the baggage area, with a display of what Edison's laboratory MAY have looked like on booard, complete with galley-proof printing press. Anything that was original on the car (and there wasn't much beyond hardware)that wasn't re-used has been saved and will be stored for those who wish to research the car's history and restoration. We have documented the entire process of what we are doing. We will not operate the car, and it will not be as built (as-built was 58-seat coach). It is probably more replication than restoration, but it boils down to this; everything we have done is documented: a VERY close sister is EJ&S #2 at Mid-Continent, which they have decided to moth-ball for the time being; and we plan to make sure that the public visiting our museum realizes that while we don't know if this is a car Edison worked in/ on, it simulates the type of car that he did. What does this mean? It means that anytime you do a project such as this, the historical significance of the car/ locomotive has got to be taken into account, even though going in we knew this wouldn't be a car used for anything other than display. I don't know if we would have gone through with the project on this car if we hadn't known about EJ&S #2. As it was, we spent close to two years in the search/ documentation of the car before we EVER removed ANYTHING. Maybe comparing compromise in static wooden combines and operating steam locomotives is comparing apples and oranges, but as some point in each case some SERIOUS thought needs to be put into what is being done with them, and more importantly, HOW its being done. Enough from me, TJ Port Huron Museum peremarquette@hotmail.com |
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