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Thomas weekends
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23387		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  elueck [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Thomas weekends
Does anyone have any average numbers on how many visitors a Thomas weekend brings to some of the museums and operations? Assuming those numbers are not confidential of course.
Author:  HOD Bill [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thomas weekends
I don't know the "official" number, but I understand we had abut 20,000 riders this year. It has grown every year.

Thomas is a lot of work and some folks think its a pain. It requires good planning and execution on everyone's part. However, it has made people aware that we exist who didn't know before the little blue guy came. It has brought in new members and new riders to our regular trains. It also pumps $$ into the local economy (hotels, restuarants, gas sations, etc.)
Author:  Martyhuck [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thomas weekends
The Huckleberry RR held it's first Thomas event last year. We had 24,000 people in 6 days.
Author:  k5ahudson [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thomas weekends
Our first year we brought in about 23,000. Last year it was down a bit to 20,000 which is normal after the first year. This years event, which happens to start this coming weekend, will be down again to about 16,000. Still plenty to make a hefty profit though.

For what ever reason I understand ticket sales are down on average this year all over North America. Fuel costs maybe?
Author:  J.David [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thomas weekends
Greetins:
Essex Steam Train is allowed to sell 6000 tickets per day, we operate "Thomas" 4 days per year. We have sold our allotment for the past 6 years.
J.David
Author:  caboose9 [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Thomas weekends
Saturation, perhaps?



"For what ever reason I understand ticket sales are down on average this year all over North America. Fuel costs maybe?"
Author:  co614 [ Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thomas weekends
As a part timer on the New Hope&Ivyland we last did a Thomas event 3/4 years ago. The railroads senior management decided that at the end of the day the profits generated did not equal the time/effort and exhausting drain on everyone that the events demanded. The money was ok (not nearly what you might think after paying the hefty royalties,mandatory souvenir purchases, extra staff needed,overtime etc.,etc.,etc.) and having it overwhelmed the rest of the railroads products (freight,regularly scheduled pssgr.service etc.),and it took some time for everyone to recover from 6- 20 hour days back to back.
From being involved in the last one as the "Stationmaster" I couldn't agree more with their decision.
Appears to me that it's a good fit for properties that have minimal business normaly and have plenty of excess capacity (human and physical plant) and find a good "payday" once a year attractive enough to go through the exercise.
As long as Thomas stays on PBS it'll continue to work as every year a new crop of devoted fans is created. If it goes off the air again it will stop working within 2/3 years as the then current crop reaches the no longer interested age of about6/7. Until then it will be a great gift for many struggling properties!!
IMHO-Ross Rowland
Author:  fredash [ Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thomas weekends
If you are planning a Thomas event, don’t confuse gross attendance levels with the net gain in visitation. Take the number of Thomas tickets sold on any day and subtract what the normal attendance would be for that day. Note that you now pay a royalty on part of your natural traffic base. Thomas also is notorious for cannibalizing the remainder of your season. Even if Gramps is a railfan, he only brings the grand kids out once a year. A 10-35% fall off for the rest of the season may result.

Changes to net revenue are harder to calculate. It may depend on how well you normally do at merchandise and food sales.
Author:  Robin Warren [ Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thomas weekends Two Questions
1. Can you plan for which day to have a "Thomas" event? Shoot for a day you know will be marginal at best?
2. How does "Thomas" get to the destination for the event? Rail, truck?

Thanks
Author:  Bob Kutella [ Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thomas weekends Two Questions
I beleive there are at least three Thomas replicas, (four counting Strasburg?) and they move from site to site by truck. Typically you pay the trucking into your site, the next site pays theirs.

The dates are booked almost a year in advance and I THINK they give preference in dates to repeat bookings. So if you are even thinking of it, find out the regional 'broker' for your geographic location and see what dates might be open for 2008.

In our case we book a FRI-SAT-SUN followed by SAT-SUN the next weekend.

The Friday may bring only 8000 and the weekend days 10,000-12,000 each day.

Imagine the previous comments about the work and effort, and double that. The expenses are almost unimaginable when you consider handling that many people and you have to commit to those in advance, not knowing EXACTLY the total turnout. Everything from porta potties, to tent rental, to security, to food concessions, to additonal phone lines and electrical service drops, to the requisite adjunct 'entertainment' that the Thomas contract requires. Extra cleanup crews daily, two weeks to set up and another two to tear down.

In our case we also choose to park a first aid trailer, air conditioned (it can get really hot), and have a trained paramedic/nurse available at all times.

Another example, in our case Coke parks a semi truck in the back lot and swaps it out for a new one after the first three days.

So, the advice is to plan ahead, visit a Thomas event at a site similar to your capacity and set up, and try to establish a relationship so you will get meaningful feedback. If you feel someone's hand in your pocket, it belongs to Thomas.

Bob K
Author:  HOD Bill [ Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thomas weekends Two Questions
Don't forget the local government's involvement may be needed also. Street closings may be required, additional parking, traffic control, etc. During our Thomas weekends the police and paramedics set up a temp substation on our property. One paramedic rides each train. We have the good fortune to be in a community that really likes and supports us.

That's not Thomas's hand in your pocket...It's a vacuum hose!

Bill
Author:  elueck [ Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thomas weekends Two Questions
For all of you that responded, that is just what I need to go in front of our little museum's board. Both the good things and the bad. Last year we had only 4000 visitors and this year so far it looks like maybe 7000 total. We are not looking for Thomas in 2008 but maybe in 2009. No matter what it takes, if we had two weekends and drew only 15,000 in 5 days, in our case 99% of those would be first time visitors, and would give us a chance to showcase all of the other things that we do as well.
Once again, to all of you, a heartfelt thanks!

Everett Lueck
Author:  k5ahudson [ Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thomas weekends Two Questions
Bob Kutella wrote:
I beleive there are at least three Thomas replicas, (four counting Strasburg?)

There are actually 7 standard gauge replicas, up from 6 last year, plus one narrow gauge replica.
Author:  dand [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thomas weekends Two Questions
Perhaps one final comment needs to said from a customer perspective. My son, his wife and two children plus my wife and another family group rode Thomas recently to celebrate a birthday. Due to a washout in '06 the ride was only about 5 miles and 1/2 hour long.

The kids liked it. The adults were very dissapointed. They all felt the price was too much for such a short ride. I was dismayed at the food booths, photo booths etc. It had a carnival atmosphere, albiet small carnival. Parking was scarce with passengers parking several block away. Absolutely no dogs allowed inside the midway gate. Being accustomed to carrying our mini-doxie on the SVRy train, I had to leave her in the car and check on her frequently because of the heat. It is definitely a kid thing, nothing for adults except to see their children happy.

Personally, I was unable to get a ticket which turned out to be fortunate because I requested a ride in the cab of the diesel on the other end of the train. The Engineer obliged me with a complimentary ride since I am an Engineer at SVRy. So, I thoroughly enjoyed the cab ride and conversation with the Engineer.

I do not know if the RR cleared a profit or not. I suspect it was scheduled long before the washout last fall. The ride is normally about 25 miles one way I think.

We have talked about Thomas on SVRy. However, we believe we would not get enough patronage to make it worth the expense and trouble. Just setting up for a photo train takes about a week.

dan
Author:  HOD Bill [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thomas weekends Two Questions
5 miles and a half an hour to an hour out and back is about the norm for a Thomas run. Pack 'em in-run-return-unload-repeat to the tune of 8 trains a day. Not for adults for sure.

By nature "A Day Out Wih Thomas" is exactly that. Not just the train ride. Thus, the carnival like atmosphere.

Futhermore, Thomas people are very, very demanding. Better not have a sound system failure on the train, better be sure the Thomas CD is playing ALL THE TIME, better not have AC failure on a car, everybody better smile, etc, etc, etc!!

Is it worth it? Depends on your venue, I guess. It generates lots of people and $$, but I think we make more PROFIT on Christmas trains.
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