Friends,

Why in these disussions about preservation and oepration must we use words like "war?"

This is not a war. If anything, it's almost an orgy since most of us who have expressed an opinion fall somewhere in the gray area of run somethings, save others in original fabric.

The percieved division bewteen academics, operators and others is better served as a case of similarities.

For myself, the only group that troubles me are complaining railfans, as there are a handful of locomotives (numbers witheld) in the hands of these kinds of groups which are probably the most endangered artifacts.

That is all,

Rob Davis

superc@monmouth.com

> Why in these disussions about preservation
> and oepration must we use words like
> "war?"
Let's see--down below you stated I was in the other camp...Is this the North versus the South battle camp or what!

My whole point was not to take sides but rather to point out as many have later stated also, that operating equipment does a lot to help
the hobby, and bring attention to everything else
that surrounds the hobby...ie helps static museum
displays and generally promotes interest. Why is this a bad thing!
> This is not a war. If anything, it's almost
> an orgy since most of us who have expressed
> an opinion fall somewhere in the gray area
> of run somethings, save others in original
> fabric.

> The percieved division bewteen academics,
> operators and others is better served as a
> case of similarities.

> For myself, the only group that troubles me
> are complaining railfans, as there are a
> handful of locomotives (numbers witheld) in
> the hands of these kinds of groups which are
> probably the most endangered artifacts.

This is a troubling comment. Now we are putting labels on folks calling them railfans just because they like to see trains operate. My whole
interest in trains started because my dad took us out to see real trains operating, and in the late 50's when they were everyday things. We were used to going trackside, or riding a particular train to a destination. When something special might run today, then its a way to rekindle fond memories, is it not. It surely is not the old days, as we just simply cannot go back.

In closing, I don't feel I am in one CAMP or the other. I was simply taking issue with one or two writers who were scolding folks who wanted to run something because they only wanted to PRESERVE it as a static disply. To me that is one-side in the opposite direction of your so called foaming railfans. I realize everything is not going to run again, because logic dictates there is not enough money to go around. Thats why when something does operate it is special. Many of us appreciate the fact it is operational, and realize nothing lasts for forever. Todays operating engine might be tomorrows static display, and I am fine with that! Just down turn off the folks who enjoy watching the trains for fun, or they won't be as supportive of the other aspects of preservation!
Greg Scholl

> That is all,

> Rob Davis


sales@gregschollvideo.com

Greg,

Noo, nooo, nooo! I didn't say "all railfans" I said "complaining railfans."

It's like "not all Arab people" just "Al Queda" to use a war metaphor.

Heck, I have already admitted my fractured bent as one who foams rather well, too! It's tough to balance. Would I like to see B&M #3713 stuffed, mounted and "conserved?" Yes. Will I foam all over the DL&W ballast when she returns to service? Yes.

These arms are too short to box with God! I've got to make do as an imperfect human.

Of course, there are not enough railfans (in general) to support preservation efforts on the scale needed today. If there were, we wouldn't have the vast number of pieces rotting outdoors that we do.

You do have to admit (and I did say it as a tease) you are in an interesting position as your fine video work would be less than compelling if the engines weren't moving. ;-)

I can see it now: Dead Dinosaurs of Donner! A fascinating look at Southern P steam rusting back into the earth!


Rob

PS: I'll buy another pitcher if someone will drive me home.

superc@monmouth.com

> Of course, there are not enough railfans (in
> general) to support preservation efforts on
> the scale needed today. If there were, we
> wouldn't have the vast number of pieces
> rotting outdoors that we do.

This may be true enough, but who are the museums for anyway....railfans, or non railfans???Think about. Again you are laying claim against a group unfairly.

> You do have to admit (and I did say it as a
> tease) you are in an interesting position as
> your fine video work would be less than
> compelling if the engines weren't moving.
> ;-)

This is I went overseas when steam ended in the US, so I could enjoy seeing big-time steam operatins in a real-life environment. No steam excursions can replace that!

While my main interest, and the reasons I got into the video business is that I like steam engine, it is not all I sell, nor not necessarily what pays the bills. If you look at my newest releases there are 4 new diesel oriented tapes for this year. When steam runs, that is no guarantee it will sell, when there are multiple companies selling it(pie is split). So, we go with the flow and do something else.
To make my point one more time, I feel that operating trains are what draw interest....note I did not specify STEAM. This could be other things besides Steam...such as diesels, trolleys, or whatever. The kid riding a diesel powered Santa Train, is at least given exposure to a train, and something he is going to remember when he grows up.
Cheers,
Greg Scholl
PS Have another eggnog! Your choice of extras!:)



sales@gregschollvideo.com

I hope that I don't fall on my sword with this....

This restoration versus preservation argument is too narrowly focused. Locomotives and cars are just a single facet of what we are all trying to do. The preservation of railroading history is our main objective. How we go about preserving that history provides the path of either restoration or preservation.

At TVRM, we are trying to create a living history museum of what the golden age of railroading was like. That encompasses a lot of areas. Not only do we strive to maintain our coaches to how they would have been in the 1930's, our depots (including the music being played) also fill that role. The dress of our train crews is also period. Unfortunately, the FRA requires us to do some things that are "modern". Along with the grounds and the equipment, we are preserving the skills of running, firing and maintaining this equipment. How could we not do this without restored locomotives and coaches?

Other organizations will take different paths. The EBT and the Strasburg are living time capsules that I hope remain with us forever and forever.

Then you have your pure museums. These places obviously want to preserve railroad history in a static environment coupled with interpretation.

All of us co-exist with the same goal. I don't believe that being critical of how one wishes to reach that goal is helpful to us all. I do wish that we could focus our energies on many of the pieces out there that have become neglected and could end up being scrapped (the C&O K4 2760 is a prime candidate).

I do have two last "parting shots" before I fall on my sword. Paul Merriman once said that putting a steam locomotive on display was like propping a corpse. And, there will never be a truly original locomotive. Our 610 was about as complete of an original locomotive as I have ever seen. But even being built in 1952, it came to us stripped of many parts and any restoration or preservation would have not been completely original.

Oh, is anyone thinking about track? Rails, ties, spikes? Is there a rail museum? And it is right to run a 1950's era train on the 132 lb/yd welded rail installed on your tourist railroad? Are the locomotives displayed in museums placed on the proper track?

Awaiting return fire......

aw90h@cs.com

> I hope that I don't fall on my sword with
> this....

> At TVRM, we are trying to create a living
> history museum of what the golden age of
> railroading was like.
> Awaiting return fire......

With cannon blazing I add this little nugget.
I find it humorous when the preservationists worry about the authenticity of the artifacts, then change the piece to resemble something on their wish lists.

I am not taking sides on this issue, but I can never quite understand why folks take engines and make them something else. I understand you guys are doing that with the steamtown Pacific, and in fact changed the 610 from a US Army engine. Not trying to single you guys out in this, as others have done the same.

For years the Cumbres and Toltec fought the idea of putting Rio Grande on the tenders of their engines, when places like Knotts Barry Farm and Huckleberry with 464 would letter authentic Rio Grande on their engines and pertinent rolling stock.

TVRM is a living testiment to railroading and an operational one that is exciting to visit and ride. But how authentic is the equipment? Does it matter!!! I would think the purists would not like these sort of aspects, but then I guess the rules always are bendable to ones own interpretation and who holds the purse strings.

Thankfully, C&TS now allows the RIO GRANDE on the tenders, and since they run on former Rio Grande tracks this is a neat Historically accurate piece of preserved history. Bravo!

I don't know who fell on what sword, but I am about to retreat out of the south:)!
Greg Scholl


sales@gregschollvideo.com

Which actually did happen, BTW.

Whatever one might say about TVRR, they do run a fine railroad without fake diamond stacks and indian attacks which interprets American railroading so beautifully that the audience isn't even aware they are being taught history.

EBT is a time capsule as is Sierra RR, but Strasburg? Time capsule of a well operated, first class tourist line with dignity and high standards but not an historic operating branchline by any means. Can't agree with Mark on this one.

Guys, we all are out there finding our way to do what we can do as best we can do it. We are in the entertainment industry and have to market and position ourselves accordingly since the half dozen historians who will be fascinated with our as found hermetically sealed conserved hulks lack the financial resources to care for them and reward us for saving them in perpetuity.

It is unaviodable that compromise with academic curatorial standards must occur in the process. Arguing about it won't change that so why don't we instead concentrate on raising the bar and better defining and executing our indiividual missions instead?

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

I agree. Different strokes for different folks!
Greg Scholl

Fund raiser videos-Crew autographs

sales@gregschollvideo.com

Heck, Scholl. Send me a new UP tape. That one has writing all over it!


Rob


superc@monmouth.com

> EBT is a time capsule as is Sierra RR, but
> Strasburg? ...a well operated,
> first class tourist line with dignity and
> high standards but not an historic operating
> branchline by any means.

Strasburg is a first class tourist line that runs THROUGH a real life time capsule. :)

> Heck, Scholl. Send me a new UP tape. That
> one has writing all over it!

> :-)

> Rob

For $50.00 you get the autographed sleeve with all the UP guys signatures, plus a brand new tape of that title which you can play.....and all the money, including the cost of the said video goes to a fund for the C&TS that is for mechanical improvements to operational Cumbres & Toltec Scenic engines.
For that matter, we will accept the deal for nearly ANY of our videos, and give you whatever autographed C&TS sleeves, or the UP one that we have remaining(only a handful remain)from the original 5 of a kind that were signed! Nice to give someone or yourself a little Christmas gift and know the money goes back into a something with a REAL firebox!
Happy Holidays
Greg Scholl

Image of a different one.


Fund raiser videos-Crew autographs

sales@gregschollvideo.com