At Greenville, Pa., no date:

http://abpr2.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi? ... +le154.jpg

Is 643 still in McKees Rocks (sp?) and still owned by Glen Campbell? The last picture I had of her was outside under a blue tarp. Is she still outside or moved inside for better protection. I believe she was restored, then never operated, true? Is she too big (wheelbase) to traverse roadbed now currently designed for diesels, or does she have good lateral motion devices?

She is a handsome devil, too bad she can't stretch her legs

FindersKeepers:

Indeed, the 643 still resides in McKee's Rocks and still owned by Glenn Campbell. She sat outside in front of the old P&LE Locomotive Shops until about 1999, when a scrapper was pulling up the rails and Glenn was forced to move the engine across the CSX main to an old lumber mill storage shed. Unfortunately, the building's literally coming down on top of the engine, so a move to a safer place would be ideal.

The engine was restored in the late 80s and early 90s. It has been test fired twice and has moved on shop air, but never has it moved under its own power. Gary Bensman or one of the other gents involved could probably give you a list of everything done to the engine, but she's in quite good shape mechanically.

The 643 currently sits on a VERY tight curve, as she has since the move, with an old Alco S2 and an auxialliary water car (ex L&N). We had the Alco running last year, but copper theives kindly relieved us of the traction motor cables and some of the engine lube lines. Additionally, they cut off all of the lubrication lines on the 643. There's another reason a move would be welcome.

As to operations, there seem to be mixed answers on this. A few folks I've consulted have said that the blind center driver might be a problem with self-guiding switch frogs, but Glenn swears the engine went over a bunch of them on the way down from Greenville without incident. Another issue is simple the city she's in: you have to go over a bridge in pretty much any direction to leave Pittsburgh, and her axle loadings may make this a challenge.

Anyway, a few of us Pittsburgh folk have been trying to keep up with the rust and keeping a watchful eye on her until something better comes along. Alas, CSX removed the switch points to the siding (rails still there with "Do not remove - equipment still in siding"), so that'll need re-assembled before anything comes out. Here's keeping our fingers crossed for something better for this beast...

What're we waitin' for, Tim? Let's go! ;)





Kelly Lynch

I think one possible answer might lie a bit west of Pittsburgh. The B&LE sold 18 of their 2-10-4's to the Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range. Those engines were numbered 700-717 on the DM&IR. Perhaps it is time for a 19th B&LE 2-10-4 to go west. Lettered for the Missabe and numbered 718. And housed in the museum in Duluth. The museum there has even had some luck in operating steam out of Duluth in the past including, I believe, big steam in the form of Milwaukee Road 4-8-4 #261. Perhaps Mr. Campbell might contact the Lake Superior Railroad Museum and see what could be worked out. Wouldn't hurt to try.

Les

And is there somewhere for her to operate out there? Feel like talking the current railroad management into allowing a charter ore drag or three?

Actually, I have a much better idea. For years now, the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania has, for all practical purposes, been the "Pennsylvania Railroad Museum" when it comes to steam locomotives. I've long lobbied, albeit too quietly, for opportunities to "mix it up" and get a more representative selection in there--an ex-NYC/Monongahela/D&H Shark, for one......

A B&LE 2-10-4? Hell, yeah. Or maybe better, get 643, trade it to the current owners of 604 (the B&LE 0-10-2), get a distinctive and hulky B&LE loco for the RR Museum of Pa., and leave the Greenville, Pa. area with a nice, potentially operable display.........

And yeah, while I'm smoking this stuff, I want two days of Plandampf on the Horse Shoe Curve............

Dress her up to look like a J1 and have her haul hoppers up and down the curve for a few days!

I don't think it would be such a good idea for the RRMPA to get more equipment until they can get more cover for the equipment they have, not to mention the space for it.

Besides, how do you expect to move a steam engine, that size, to Strasburg? Cost and logistics.

Joshua

Under steam? <:-D

Oh, that's right, that would involve fixing up 604........... >:-/

[quote="Alexander D. Mitchell IV"]And is there somewhere for her to operate out there? Feel like talking the current railroad management into allowing a charter ore drag or three?

quote]

The museum operates the North Shore Scenic Railroad, a 26 mile ex-Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range line along the Lake Superior shoreline between Duluth and Two Harbors. They DO operate diesel powered passenger trains over this route, and have operated steam over it in the past. Although I am not sure if the DM&IR's ex-B&LE 2-10-4's operated over this particular line, they DID run into Duluth itself and the locomotives DID operate out of Two Harbors. Thus, this is certainly home territory to this class of engine.

The Lake Superior Railroad Museum had worked out a lease for Soo Line 4-6-2 #2719, but due to mechanical problems with the locomotive, have not yet put it in service. The owners of the Pacific retain title to it. Likewise, it would be possible for Mr. Campbell to keep title to the 643 if a satisfactory lease could be worked out with LSRM. As for getting it to Duluth, yes that would be a problem. But certainly not an insurmountable one. With some innovative ideas, perhaps she could be moved.

And finally, I certainly can understand why Mr. Campbell would want to keep the 643 in the Pittsburgh area. But to date, there have been no indications that she would ever run out of there. Would it not be better to have a DM&IR 718 displayed in a museum setting in Duluth where she might even see occassional service? The ball certainly is in Mr. Campbell's hands. Will he continue to just sit on it?

Les

While it is nice to speculate on where the 643 should go the most important thing I see here is that the move needs to happen in the near future. The combination of theives, a roof falling in on the engine, and CSX removing the switch points brings about a sense of urgency. I have seen CSX not only remove the switch to an occupied siding but to more than one siding where the owner thought they were still a customer, especially since they still had an open CSX account. In fact I saw them do both at the same time to a warehouse in Fayetteville, NC.

If this has not already turned into a truck only move Mr. Campbell likely needs to make arrangements for a move soon. Are alternative sites being explored and discussions begun with the railroad?

John Bohon

I can tell you that over the last decade or so, I've had several initial inquiries from various organizations about that locomotive.

We've done some some intial engineering analysis on it based on some NRHS and TRAINS articles where the Baldwin technical specs were listed, and it's a daunting task. Total engine weight, loaded wheelbase, axle loadings, curvature, oh, and did I mention the dynamic augment problems of the 2-10-4's not equipped with lightweight rods because of WWII material shortages? This is a very 'dense' locomotive on its driver wheelbase for bridge analysis, too.

I visited the three B&LE steamers when they were still in the roundhouse in Greenville, and was rather awestruck as a teenager.

Today, the combination of raw weight and operating costs are a real problem for any resumed operations, despite the condition reports I have no reason to challenge. She really needs preserved, but anyone that wants to operate her needs to do the research on the engineering side, and your typical shortline/tourist railroad track today just isn't in the physical condition of the B&LE main line. Bessemer was, and is, an awesome physical plant, partially due to the legacy of needing to operate the 643 and kin.

I believe there was a news report 10 years ago of a failed negotiation to transfer the engine to Steamtown. I believe the family wanted more money for the engine.

I have video of the 643's move from Glenwood to McKees Rocks, showing the 2-10-4 smoothly navigating the self-guarded switch frogs at McKees Rocks and the incredibly tight balloon loop at the Glenwood Shops. With lateral motion on its No. 1 Drivers and flangeless No. 3 (Main) Drivers, the 643 rolled easily despite incredible cab swing-out on the loop.

Having also shot NKP 765 struggling around the McKees Rocks Wye in 1985, I have no doubt that the 643 could navigate curved or irregularly-surfaced track that would derail a NKP 2-8-4.

-Bruce Manwiller